Blackhat is telling you the gospel if you expect youre trans and headgaskets to live a long life be very weary of fueling devices unless you absolutely know what you are doing & have the ability to controll youre right foot. I would never tow with a predator or edge I do tow with my banks but never above stage 4 and thats with hypertech stacked to help with transmisson performance (and I love to be on the ragged edge of disaster! it excites me)

 

I am not questioning his posts. I offered information to another guy and got nailed as I see a lot other getting nailed. I was NOT stating an opinion. I do not know enough about diesels to state an opinion. I do not have an opinion. Just my experience. Again, good grief.

Now tell me who else sells a chip or tuner or flash device that will work on an E350. Not an F350 but an E350.

 

What does it matter E350 vs F350, they should all be interchangeable no?

 

'Fraid not. The plug in is smaller on a van. Same wires. Tempted to cut, solder, and tape, plug it in, and enjoy. Very few sell for vans. Apparently, Predator is one and most speak against it. Or both of them for that matter.
I want the most hp with the safest application. Pure torque matters the most. As I have stated, I pull an enclosed trailer and I travel over some pretty neat mountains. With the Predator the gear shifting is minimized.
Apparently, the Predator is criticized for its neglect of the transmission. With 40,000 plus of some pretty hard driving, I have not had any issues with the transmission. The Predator manual (not my opinion) states that if exhaust gets too hot, it will defuel automatically and allow for cooling. Running the mountains of North Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia, I have not incurred any heating problems either.

 

The only way the module is hard on the tranny is if you abuse it. If you are doing boost launches and hard starts all the time ANY of the hp boosters are hard on the tranny. The SCT does address some of the issues but a driver with a brain can use a 85-100 hp device without trashing the tranny. Keeping your head out of your butt is the real issue.

Calling the predator junk is a little extreme. It does the same thing that Edge, Quadzilla and Banks do. Are they all junk? The DR module does give a nice boost in mpg.

one4

†

 

Yes all inline fuel modules are junk. They do not address enough parameters to be safe. They basically just add fuel. Read my first post. You can blow the head gaskets on a 6.0 with as little as 22psi of boost, because of mean cylinder pressure etc. The riskiest performance mod to the 6.0 is the "Inline" fuel module, closely followed by aftermarket air intakes.

If you are running an inline fuel module, it is only a matter of time before transmission problems show up. The inline fuel module increases Hp & Torque but does not change Any of the parameters of the transmission. Therefore more slipping and heat buildup.

Also if you are going to run and inline fuel device or a Tuner with Extreme tunes, you better run as a minimum EGT, Fuel Pressure, Trans Temp and Oil Temp gauges. Without this imformation, you cannot safely asses your engine parameters and the effects of the inline fuel module.

Also one more thing to think about, you will pay more for an inline fuel module than you will for and SCT XcalII with custom tunes.

 

Don't take the post to personally, you have to understand the members of FTE have been playing with and tuning the 6.0 since 03 and your question and others gets asked all most daily, and we try to keep the misinformation to a minimum.

I am not sure what tunes are available for the 6.0 in the E series vans. But your best bet is to call Matt (PSD 60L Fx4) at www.lidiesel.com the first of the week and talk to him. If anyone can help you it will be Matt. He is the leading performance guru on the 6.0, and if it there is a way to do it he can get you there. Also he is in Hendrsonville NC so he is in your neck of the woods.

Also as far as the Predator Module defueling at High EGT (do they tell you what this number is?) is a little misleading in engine safety. Yes EGT is important in the 6.0, but high oil temps will melt the Al pistons faster than high EGT will hurt your turbo.

 

I have also heard that the SCT is the best unit. I disagree that all inline fuel pressure items are junk. However you are better off leaving the 6.0 stock. The 6.0 is a little fragile in stock form for any quick hp upgrade. If you have a "good" one you can do about anything you want. I have a buddy that has an '03 that has been abused since day one. It has had every tuner known to man on it. 120,000 miles later, two clutches and zero engine issues the thing still runs awesome. Go figure.

I also agree that cylinder pressures are the real culprit in early failure of the 6.0 head gaskets. Anything outside of stock is a gamble. It's funny the 6.0 can take an unreal amount of heat but, they can't take the abuse that gets them hot.

one4

 

Well to be perfectly honest with both of you, BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) is not the culprit here, PFP (peak firing pressure) is what gets the head gaskets. If you have never manually balanced an engine using both scales listed above, which also uses the coefficient value (health of the individual cylinder) you have no idea how many variables the ECM has to deal with. The PFP may only spike 2 times in 100 cylinder firing cycles, 98 of those did not lift the head gaskets. Just the 2 did. The Ford computer probably doesn't analyze PFP, but rather BMEP. Thus the more reason to be leary of inline devices that modify what the ECM sees.

 

Well Ryan according to Matt, Mean Cylinder pressure can and does lift the heads on these engines in his experience.

 

what are you "good griefing " about Fluffy? Was'nt this post started by 77F250sc asking how the predator module works? Hence the replies and a few valid comparisons

 

Well, this ended up a little off base.

Initially I was looking for information on the Dr. Performace Predator module.

My bad for not knowing there are more that one Predator modules. I was hoping to get more info on how they "actually" work. How and what gets changed by hooking into the ICP?

If you are not increaseing EGT's and not adding fuel, how do you get more power? According to my old thermo and chemistry books, this shouldn't be possible.

I am trying to get to about 625-650 ft-lbs, I don't think I need anymore than that based on my experiences. How does the new 6.4 torqueshift differ from the 6.0 torqueshift? If it is the same then torque to torque numbers are similer so that shouldnt be an issue?

Cost is a big issue on this, I am not going to drop $800-$1000 for some "custom" tune, monitor, etc.. it doesnt pay for itself to me. For the small amount that I would like increase to, do these work, reliably and effectively?

Please, I really dont care if you are running Wazoo program number 50 with big bang extra uploader on your truck, I would like the information that pertains to this style of module.

 

We answered your question on the "Predator", both inline fuel device and tuner.
As i and many others have posted before (use the search function there is a ton of info on this in the 6.0 forum), all an inline fuel module does is hook in downstream of the PCM and alter the Fuel Timing and Duration, which causes more fuel usage and an increase in power in theory, it does not increase fuel pressure. Big problem with this "Amature & Simplistic" form of tuning is the PCM & TCM are unaware of the changes occurring and therefore cannot adjust other parameters in the engine (ie VVT) or transmission line pressure, lock-up or shift points.

Maybe you should read my first post a little closer, and you will find that Nobody said with tuning we would not get and increase in EGT under certain conditions. There are ways to increase power on an internal combustion engine without adding more fuel and you can increase the performance of an engine without always increasing the EGT's.

What scientific testing did you use to determine that 570lb-ft or torque was not enough and 625-650lb-ft was?

What are you trying to accomplish, Better hole shot, specific ET for your bracket, pulling your trailer faster up a hill?

If you are trying to pull a trailer faster, obtain a specific ET or improve your hole shot, this can be accomplished much safer and better by re-gearing the axles.

I have not seen the mechanical specs on the Torque Shift in the 2008 SD, to the best of my knowledge the mechanicals specs are the same. That being said however, you cannot make the leap that if the mechanical parts are the same between the TS in the 2008 and earlier SD's, then you can increase Hp & Torque on a pre-2008 Torque Shift to the same levels of the 6.4 PSD without problems. I can tell you that the 2008 SD has larger Radiator, Engine Oil cooler and Transmission Oil cooler than the earlier 6.0/TS equipped SD. There is more to transmission life than the mechanical parts it contains. The Torques Shift is a computer controlled transmission and i know the 2008 has different programming in its PCM & TCM than earlier 6.0/TS SD's. The computer controlls the Line pressure, TC lockup, Temperature, selected gear ratios and the shift points. This is all controlled to maximize the life of the transmission and obtain the best performance for the current demands on the system. A good A/M tuner (ie SCT XcalII with custom tunes) is fully integrated with the PCM & TCM to proprely address, Line pressure, TC lockup, shift points etc.

There is much more to increasing the Hp & Torque than just a "Simplistic" inline module. You add an inline fuel module and the Torque Shift goes south sooner rather than later.

NO!!! inline fuel modules DO NOT Work RELIABLY or SAFELY by themselves.
YOU need to do your homework and read the posts on FTE.
As far as cost goes the DR. Performance Predator retails for $500, you can get an SCT XcalII with custom tunes for $450. So YOU do the Math!

Also no matter what Tuner or Chip you install, you must install gauges first. A minimum of EGT & Trans with a Tuner and a minimum of EGT, Trans, Fuel Pressure, Oil Temp with an inline chip. In reality all modified trucks should have EGT, Trans Temp, Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp and Water Temp gauges installed. The minimum guage package will cost you about $300.
If you don't have the money to play then you need to stay on the sidelines out of the game, because you are not going to be able to afford the engine or transmission repairs that are NOT going to be covered under warranty. If you are going to play then you gotta Pay!

Dude!!! we have given you alot of information about the Dr. P and the other inline fuel modules (ie, Banks, Edge) and then we gave you the information on what Tuner you should be using instead of a "Simplistically Designed" and "Overpriced" inline fuel module. We also told you who to call and talk to about modifying your engine for more Hp & Torque. You were pointed to the top performance guru with respect to the 6.0 & Torque Shift. If you missed it, call Matt at www.lidiesel.com and he will set you straight.

FYI we could really careless if you have Your Brain Box in your "Wazoo" and cannot read the information posted and use the search function, as All your questions have been answered in the past numerous times.

 

"Good grief" now we all know what he meant after reading that post.

I am out on this one. 1/2 of this topic was helpful, the other half not so.

Thought I was going to get a bonified compete answer out of the knowledgable masses, not blasted with "dude" I know this guy, he'll fix you right up, etc......

Now I will have to actually disturb someone that is trying to make a living with "another dumb phone call" and do my homework on somebody elses dime.

DISGUSTED.

 

You did get "bonified" complete answers from multiple posts in this thread and you can use the "search function" to find more answers. If you don't know who Matt (PSD 60L Fx4) is maybe you Should do a little homework right here on FTE and read the info that has been posted on the 6.0 for the last 5 years or so.

We even told you how an inline fuel module works and All the Problems with them.

Matt will be more than happy to talk to you, but do a search and read the information already posted, and then you can keep your telephone call short.

Or there is always option # 2, get out your Chem and Thermo books, by the DR. P Predator based on their website and marketing video, and TOTALLY ignore all the information that has already been given to you and posted on FTE about all the problems with "inline fuel devices"

Sorry we didn't tell you the Dr. P Predator was worth a crap, sounds like you want one no matter what, so buy it and take your chances, you obviously didn't post your question to get honest answers.