Shim's
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Hope you did not think that I made any implication as to your ability to install a spring. I did not intend to suggest that you did anything wrong.
Anyway, I had a leveling kit on a dually, and there was not an issue whatsoever. Not with the shackle, (it did not look like that) , and nothing with the caster. It was a simple install, and very straight foward. I am stumped too. Might just be forced to install some 4* shims, and see if that settles it down. It should get better, obviously can't get worse.
Anyway, I had a leveling kit on a dually, and there was not an issue whatsoever. Not with the shackle, (it did not look like that) , and nothing with the caster. It was a simple install, and very straight foward. I am stumped too. Might just be forced to install some 4* shims, and see if that settles it down. It should get better, obviously can't get worse.
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From: Southern California
its alright, I didn't take it that way, dude 
... but yeah, it can't get any worse... I didn't think the shackle was going to come out like that, and that angle on the shackle does promte a rougher ride in itself, not to mention giving me an extra 1" over the 2" on the springs... I'm gonna do one of two things:
1) Find the angle between upper/lower ball joint and get a shim that will get me close to zero. Basically whatever angle I have right now is what I have to get as far as a shim goes. (There is some logic to that.)
2) If number one doesn't fix the problem, then I will proceed to curse at my cat, throw a wrench across the street, kick one of my tires, and start putting on the stock springs (shouldn't take me more than 2 hours). Then buy the DR 2" mini pack, lol.
By the way, any idea where I can buy shims online?
Joey
... but yeah, it can't get any worse... I didn't think the shackle was going to come out like that, and that angle on the shackle does promte a rougher ride in itself, not to mention giving me an extra 1" over the 2" on the springs... I'm gonna do one of two things:1) Find the angle between upper/lower ball joint and get a shim that will get me close to zero. Basically whatever angle I have right now is what I have to get as far as a shim goes. (There is some logic to that.)
2) If number one doesn't fix the problem, then I will proceed to curse at my cat, throw a wrench across the street, kick one of my tires, and start putting on the stock springs (shouldn't take me more than 2 hours). Then buy the DR 2" mini pack, lol.
By the way, any idea where I can buy shims online?
Joey
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What part of So. CA. are you from? I have a pretty good assortment over at my place, and even more at my shop. Those are standard 3" shims, and I have plenty. My buddy has an off road shop with a ton of them on the shelf. I can give you a hand if you are close, and want to bring the truck over. I have some degree finders so we can actually put some hard numbers down to get this thing right.
Don't kick the cat, poor cat!
Don't kick the cat, poor cat!
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From: Southern California
I live in Imperial, CA... I live about 20 minutes southeast of Glamis, or if you know the area, between Brawley and El Centro... and hey, I appreciate the help, man... I owe you a cold one...
how can I kick him? no way, I love my cat too much
Joey
how can I kick him? no way, I love my cat too much
Joey
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A little to far for a quick visit to the shop, but the cold one sounds good. Too late for dune season, gettin too hot.
I would imagine that Summit, or Jegs would have what you need. If you have troubles finding them. PM me, and let me know how much pitch you need. I will pick some up, and send them to you. It is no big deal, they are pretty light and would cost next to nothing to ship.
I would imagine that Summit, or Jegs would have what you need. If you have troubles finding them. PM me, and let me know how much pitch you need. I will pick some up, and send them to you. It is no big deal, they are pretty light and would cost next to nothing to ship.
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From: Southern California
Once again, thanks for all the help, dude... I found these shims online... might be the ticket, but I still have to do my math... damn, $20 for the pair... I'll let you know what I find out tomorrow in this thread... oh, and I hope you like Corona's 
Joey
Joey
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From: Melbourne, Aus
Originally Posted by RagingBull2k2
okay, I read up again on what everything means, lol... and I definitely have a postive caster, since the top balljoint is behind the lower balljoint in relation to the vertical plane...
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm
positive caster is what causes the "death wobble" apparently, not the other way around, unless I'm reading something incorrectly... and its so out of spec, its noticeable...
Joey
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm
positive caster is what causes the "death wobble" apparently, not the other way around, unless I'm reading something incorrectly... and its so out of spec, its noticeable...
Joey
The top balljoint should be behind the bottom one. (The reverse is true of FWD vehicles).
I could go into the reasons why this is (its due to the way the torques act).
Take a look at a bicycle for example.
I am guessing you don't have ENOUGH caster. Or your ball joints need replacing (amongst other things). I would be guessing its the caster)
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From: Southern California
so youre saying the closer I get both upper and lower balljoints to the vertical plan (caster closer to zero), the worse it's gonna get? that would tell me youre advising against the use of shims, which would move the pinion back up and closer to stock...
Joey
Joey
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From: Southern California
well, just in case, I was able to find balljoints for not too bad online...
Moog #K80026 (Uppers, need 2) $31.79
Moog #K8607T (Lowers, need 2) $47.99
gonna run about $180 + shipping... not tooooo bad...
Joey
Moog #K80026 (Uppers, need 2) $31.79
Moog #K8607T (Lowers, need 2) $47.99
gonna run about $180 + shipping... not tooooo bad...
Joey
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From: Melbourne, Aus
Well, can you work out what caster you have at the moment?
DW can be caused by either too much caster (therefore you have an underdamped steering system).
Or it can be caused by not enough caster (not enough force returning to centre, and again underdamped).
I am guessing in your situation it is caster related (but you never know... DW can be caused by many things). If you can check what your caster is, and how far out of spec it is.
You are looking for something between 3 and 6deg.
DW can be caused by either too much caster (therefore you have an underdamped steering system).
Or it can be caused by not enough caster (not enough force returning to centre, and again underdamped).
I am guessing in your situation it is caster related (but you never know... DW can be caused by many things). If you can check what your caster is, and how far out of spec it is.
You are looking for something between 3 and 6deg.
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From: Southern California
that should be something fairly hard to tell by the naked eye, but I can literally see how bad the caster is... but, its getting late and I will report back tomorrow on my findings... that does clear some things up, though... thanks ... I guess I'll rebuild my front end slowly... those shims, then DR dual steering stabilizers, balljoints, manual hubs, etc...
Joey
... I guess I'll rebuild my front end slowly... those shims, then DR dual steering stabilizers, balljoints, manual hubs, etc...Joey
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From: Southern California
okay, I got a rough estimate of the caster... I measured it behind the knuckle on both the driver and passenger side but not on the actual knuckle... I measured where the knuckle bolts on to through the balljoints... and this is what I came up with...
Drivers Side: +4*
Passenger side: +6*
now, I'm not an expert on the matter, but that seems like an awful big number... and is it normal to be that different between sides, as well? I'm assuming 6* shims would bring the passenger side to 0* and the drivers side to -2*... if my math is correct, of course...
Joey
Drivers Side: +4*
Passenger side: +6*
now, I'm not an expert on the matter, but that seems like an awful big number... and is it normal to be that different between sides, as well? I'm assuming 6* shims would bring the passenger side to 0* and the drivers side to -2*... if my math is correct, of course...
Joey
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You should never have to install different shims on opposite sides of the axle. The truck should drive well at 2 to 6 degrees. You do not want to take it to zero. It will steer uncontrollably fast.
You do have a problem with the caster being different on both sides. That is why it wont steer well, and you get the wobble. Each tire is trying to return to center at different rates, and are fighting each other.
The axle tube is also in a bind. Something else is wrong.
You do have a problem with the caster being different on both sides. That is why it wont steer well, and you get the wobble. Each tire is trying to return to center at different rates, and are fighting each other.
The axle tube is also in a bind. Something else is wrong.
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From: Southern California
could balljoints be bad on one side and not the other? I wonder how the heck did the caster end up being different side to side... I don't know what do... so I guess the problem already existed before hand be it was made worse with the lift springs... I wonder if this death wobble is covered under warranty...
pretty much it will only start the wobble if I let it... for example, if I have a real loose grip on the steering wheel and I hit a small bump, the wobble will start then get bad... BUT, if I hang on to the steering wheel (firmly) and I hit a small bump, I can feel the wheel oscillate a tiny bit, but thats it... I could just put a band-aid over it, for now (read: steering stabilizers)...
Joey
pretty much it will only start the wobble if I let it... for example, if I have a real loose grip on the steering wheel and I hit a small bump, the wobble will start then get bad... BUT, if I hang on to the steering wheel (firmly) and I hit a small bump, I can feel the wheel oscillate a tiny bit, but thats it... I could just put a band-aid over it, for now (read: steering stabilizers)...
Joey
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From: Melbourne, Aus
Originally Posted by 75F350
You should never have to install different shims on opposite sides of the axle. The truck should drive well at 2 to 6 degrees. You do not want to take it to zero. It will steer uncontrollably fast.
You do have a problem with the caster being different on both sides. That is why it wont steer well, and you get the wobble. Each tire is trying to return to center at different rates, and are fighting each other.
The axle tube is also in a bind. Something else is wrong.
You do have a problem with the caster being different on both sides. That is why it wont steer well, and you get the wobble. Each tire is trying to return to center at different rates, and are fighting each other.
The axle tube is also in a bind. Something else is wrong.
As for what it can be. Check ball joints. They are pretty commonly replacble items on the Superduty. Also, the pitman arm.
In fact, all and any steering/suspension components if you can.
That caster seems pretty spot on.