I have the greatest idea!!!!!

Go buy a $10 filter cutter and do the test yourselves. Why rely on others to do it for you and trust them. Seeing is believing and if you do the internal comparison tests yourself then you will see the difference in quality. If the quality is better and the price is the same or less what will you really use?

Regardless of the test the data is what is important.1- Pick a filter that has the highest micron filter rating you can get(this determines the size of the particles that will be caught in the filter)2- pick a filter with the largest fitlering area you can get(this will determine how long the filter can be used after the recomended life span) Who can really say that they have their oil and filter changed at the recomended interval,on the dot? It will always be changed under or,most likely, over the recomended interval.

This is a simple fact of life, I like fomoco vehicles but, does that mean that their aren't better vehicles out there? NO!!!!!!!! It is all a personal preference. Use what you want and I'll use what I want, and It won't be a fram product.

 

Then if the smaller media produces better filtration, the larger media with poorer filtration will be better???
I don't understand why you have to be an *** just because someone disagrees with you. I have seen very few people on this board with the qualifications to be so assertive.
I would say the majority of drivers don't pay that much attention to oil and filters, because they let someone else change the oil. They leave it up to the lube center to do the service, and don't give that much thought to what oil/filter is being used. Those of us who are mechanically inclined and do our own changes do form opinions, and believe this to be better than that. It's all opinion, and experience with the product. I am not attached to one brand or another, and I darn sure can't tell by looking at filter media what it will do(and neither can anyone else), so I'm not even going to try.

I am not trying to convice anyone to use a Fram filter. I could care less, but to bash a product that I have used with success just because the hate Fram bandwagon is passing by doesn't make sense to me. jd

 

YESSSSS!!!!!! Even in that case it is inferior because if you run it as long as the filter with more media, it will go into bypass sooner, leaving you with no filtration at all. But you have presupposed that Fram has smaller media. Can you point me to a source that confirms that? There is no situation you can conceive where a lack of filtering area is an advantage in filtering.


Maybe you can't; other people can.

I'm certainly wasn't trying to be an *** but when someone disagrees with you, they're an ***. I see.

I haven't heard any Fram advocate answer the question I posed earlier regarding experience running Frams:

Do you think you'd have had worse luck by running a better filter?

 

Here is a link to some oil filter grit size testing.
It's kinda dated info, but none the less interesting.
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/oil_filter_test.html

Here is some oil filter bubble testing. It gives the average media pore size & smallest media pore size, for each filter tested, along with some flow info, that probably doesn't mean much, as it was done at 70 deg F & some disassembly photos & comments, that you may or may not agree with, but most of it is none the less interesting too. http://www.oilfilterstudy.com

Maybe these two sites will begin to answer some of the filtering questions that have been posed.

 

NOOOOOO!!!!!!. You presupposed that I was talking about Fram when the media could be in any filter. You assume it would go into bypass sooner, you don't know for sure. There are several variables to be taken into consideration before this happens. I would assume that there is sufficient media in all filters to still have enough filtration between recommended oil changes, else problems would be notable.
Your statement, "But, Fram depends on people like you to buy them, so don't let them down," is arrogant, condesceding, displaying a "holier than thou know it all attitude," and was taken as a putdown. So, yes, this makes you an ***.
You are misinterpreting dialog as advocacy. I have stated several times that I am not Fram specific, only that I have used them without problems. I also use other filters. Most filters do the job, and to get so into checking the specifications of each and every filter and agonizing over which one is best, is a waste of time.

I have yet to have any filter cause a problem on my vehicles or customers. The bashing of Fram for no verifiable reason that they are bad is not fair to others who may read the forum and be influenced by what they read. I am just giving another side of the story.

And to answer your inane question, "better filter" according to who? I have had no bad luck with any filter, so I don't have an answer. jd

 

My personal experience with fram oil filter is not good. Now I can't say that it hurt my engine, but ALL have had the same problem. They licked, where the can was put together with the top of the filter.
Motorcraft has had problems to, but with only 2. The filter media separated from the rest of the filter, it was no longer connected to the other parts of the filter.
I would say that the Mortorcraft filter would hurt my engine before the Fram would. But I still use Mortorcraft filters. Now that Brand loyalty!!

 

Any product can have a problem. I changed the sparkplugs in my 96 F150. After about 2 weeks it developed a miss. The computer said #5 cylinder was the culprit. I changed the plug from #5 to #7 and the misfire followed the change. So, I changed the plug. The local autoparts didn't have Motorcraft which I had in the truck, they had Bosch. So, I put in a Bosch. It is still in there with no problems. If I had followed the lead of many, I would have condemned Motorcraft plugs on the spot, and never used them again.

Your first sentence is kind of misleading as your experience with Fram and Motorcraft was not good, but you have to read a little to discover that fact. Also, if I had the type of problem you had with two different brands of filter, there might be an underlying problem not related to the filters, and I would look further, but that is just me.

The "Fram is crap" argument has gone on forever without solid, verifiable data. With the number of filters sold, there would be some reliable data available if the product was as bad as claimed.

In earlier times, oil filters were considered an accessory, and would be installed by the dealer, or by the individual. Some enterprising entrepreneur notice the filters were about the size of a roll of toilet paper, so, he sold a kit using the toilet paper as a filter. Some folks swore the damn things were wonderful and did a great job. Any of you who has seen a roll of wet toilet paper knows what happened. After ruining many engines, the product was quickly removed from the market.

If Fram is as bad as claimed, the same thing would happen, and the data would be verifible.

As a last word, a 2 dollar filter is a 2 dollar filter no matter who makes it. If you really want the best filtration, you would have to move up to the better grade, and more costly filters. jd

 

The flaw (one of them) in your reasoning is that you think more media is needed than what the Fram has...I don't know any source that can confirm that. Oil filters are designed to remove larger contaminents/items form oil. The obvious fact that oil turns black with even what you call the "best" filters proves that contaminants get through.

As with any filtering system, it isn't designed to be used until completely plugged up. More media might be superior from a textbook filtering perspective, but isn't necessarily needed.

Having the fenders/body of my truck made out of titanium would be superior to the steel that it is, however, for me to tow a trailer or haul some 2x4's from Home Depot...well, it really isn't a benefit to me at all--though it would be cool.

 

Well lets see, if one wants their circulating lube to contain smaller sized particles, then do a little resarch & pay for & use a filter that has a smaller average pore size & smaller minimum pore size.

Then to prevent the pressure drop across the filter from getting out of hand over the OCI, the type of filter we choose will need more filter media surface area!!!!

Then to have both of the above, with long life, we need a "in depth" filter media, as by filtering "in depth", (not just on it's surface) but through out the thickness of it's media, it can last longer, while filtering well & still not have the media clog up to the point that pressure drop & flow through the media, gets out of hand, such that the filter stays in bypass most of the time.

So, by doing a little research, we can have a filter that'll take out smaller particle sizes, have low pressure drop across the filter & good flow through it's media, with long life.
IF, we choose wisely we can have it all for $3 & change, with a Motorcraft filter!!!!

All the research it really requires, is reaing that great unresd document called, "OWNERS MANUAL"!!!!! lol

 

Does anyone really think that Ford is going to recommend anything but a Motorcraft filter for use in a Ford vehicle ? Has anyone ever checked out a GM owners manual to see if a Motorcraft filter recommended for use in their vehicles? Of course Ford is going to recommend Motorcraft filters and GM is going to recommend their brand. They (Motorcraft filters) are, without a doubt a very high quality filter and Fram is, without a doubt, an economy grade filter. The bottom line is that I am paying for the filter, the oil and the Ranger pick up is mine. It is also my choice to follow a 3,000 mile oil and filter change schedule when I could probably go longer. This is the USA and I will use what I choose to use and that choice happens to be what it has been for over 30 years. I have chosen to do my research by way of personal expierience, over one million trouble free miles. I also take the reponsibility that if I have engine problems related to Fram filters, I have no ones but to kick but my own. Again, I wish to thank everyone for their opinions.

 

again, all speculation and there is no evidence that you need "smaller sized particles" to increase engine life. Oil is designed to operate with some particles suspended in it. And "pressure drop getting out of hand"??? sounds like a feeling and not based on fact.

Again, I'm not claiming that fram is top of the line, but it does the job per OEM specs...otherwise nobody would honor warranties on vehicles with fram filters.

 

Well debuck50, if your not convinced that particle size is related to engine life, then why do you suppose all vehicles now come from the factory with air, fuel & oil filters attached????

Perssure drop across the filter media is real & is constantly "felt" & measured by the By-Pass valves spring.

When it's unhappy with what it "feels" it begins to open up & provide a oil flow path, that is parallel to the filters media.

Because the pressure drop is less through the bypass valve, it gets most of the oil flow & feeds the engine mostly unfiltered oil, to prevent oil starvation.

If we use a filter with small average pore size & a small media surface area, the pressure drop across the filtering media, will cause the filter to run in the bypass mode most of the time during high demand.

Likewise if the engine & or oil is dirty & this small pore size filter, with less surface area, will clog quicker & that will raise the pressure drop across the filters media & that will result in the filter going into the bypass mode more often, or sooner than it should & that'll result in the engine being fed unfiltered more often & for longer periods of time, all of which imo aren't good low wear conditions!!!!

If we use a filter with small average pore size, but a much larger media surface area, it'll offer better filtering, over a longer period of time, with lower pressure drop across the filterin media & thus take longer to clog up & offer lower pressure drop across the filter, so it won't go into bypass as often nor for as long.

Yes, there are particles suspended in the oil, this includes it's additives, as well as soot, varnish, sludge & wear particles.

The more soot suspended in the oil, the more it affects the oils viscosity & the larger these soot particles are, the more it'll affect the viscosity & the sooner in the OCI the change will happen.

The larger the particles are, the better the chance they'll cause wear, by being larger than the oil film their suspended in.

In theory, if the particles are smaller than the oil film, or the space between the surfaces to be lubed, they should suspend in the oil film & shouildn't touch those surfaces.

BUT, what happens when the oil film is squeezed hard during high load times, when the oil is dirty????

In those high load demand times, like hard accelration, when we get crazy & go WOT, or passing, or getting up to freeway speeds, or hauling, or towing & most of all, when all the oil gets squeezed out between the surfaces & it's barrier lube time, but now there is lots of suspended "stuff" getting in the way of the barrier lubes & this suspended "stuff" is getting rubbed into & along those surfaces needing to be lubed?????

In these cases imo, more dirt & of larger particle size, sure isn't iikely to be helpful in lubing things & likely won't go unnoticed, nor unfelt, by those rubbed surfaces.

Just some more lube thoughts for pondering.

 

I bought a Fram filter the other day, and I used it to filter the solvent in my parts washer. I did not want to use one of my Motorcraft filters.
I can get the Motorcraft filters shipped to my door, in about a single day, for about four dollars each, including shipping, from one of the sponsors on this site.
Better filters, cheaper, shipped to my door. That's why I use Motorcraft filters.

 

You guys can bash Fram all you want. Wix and Crapolator are guilty of the same thing. Get an oem racor filter for the 6.0 and compair it to a Wix or Purolator, they are not the same. They are the cheap $4 version made by Champion Labs, and then sold to you at the same or higher price than a Racor. Wix and Purolator did the same thing on the 6.0 fuel filters, they decided that profit was more important to them than meeting Racor/Fords filtering requirments. They removed the Aqua Bloc media on the primary. The only oil filters that are oem racor quality for the 6.0 are Fram, Motorcraft, and IH. As far as fuel filters, Motorcraft and IH are the only oem racor filters available. So please quit putting Purolator and Wix on a Filter God pedestal.

 

what sponsor? i noticed that wally world stopped carrying motorcraft fl1a
filters...