Still pinging - what next?
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2007
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As mentioned, increased engine compression ratio due to excessive carbon buildup is still a possibility. None of your diagnostics or remedies have targeted this possibility.
I'd love to hear the results of a professional or backyard decarbonizing procedure. Or perhaps put some sort of borescope or mini-cam through a sparkplug hole and see if you do have lots of carbon buildup on top of the piston.
I'd love to hear the results of a professional or backyard decarbonizing procedure. Or perhaps put some sort of borescope or mini-cam through a sparkplug hole and see if you do have lots of carbon buildup on top of the piston.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,859
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From: USA
Originally Posted by pfb
As mentioned, increased engine compression ratio due to excessive carbon buildup is still a possibility. None of your diagnostics or remedies have targeted this possibility.
I'd love to hear the results of a professional or backyard decarbonizing procedure. Or perhaps put some sort of borescope or mini-cam through a sparkplug hole and see if you do have lots of carbon buildup on top of the piston.
I'd love to hear the results of a professional or backyard decarbonizing procedure. Or perhaps put some sort of borescope or mini-cam through a sparkplug hole and see if you do have lots of carbon buildup on top of the piston.
I have seen it take a good running engine and cause high oil useage after this procedure.
yes the borescope would be a excellant idea or a very good compression test.
Rich
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Junior User
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Pacific Northwet
Originally Posted by FortyFords
Eric ,
not being around ,I just got caught up with your update summary .
Interesting that you got no knock sensor failure code,when unplugged.
How many drive cycles or how long did you leave it disconnected for?
Does your MIL light light up when you turn the key on before starting?
Its too bad you don't have a scan tool.
To really take this any further ,your just going to throw parts at it.
To totally understand OBDI /OBDII and how its components work and how they are all related to keep things running smoothly.The tech or person has to know the functions of all things involved.
To get to the bottom of this its either a proper scan tool or a good tech ,the latter maybe hard to find.
I will rattle this around and see if I come up with some things.
I'm beging to lean towards a reflash as I said at post #18 pcm firmware has a hand in this also.
But the no code light when knock sensor disconnected is interesting.
Rich
not being around ,I just got caught up with your update summary .
Interesting that you got no knock sensor failure code,when unplugged.
How many drive cycles or how long did you leave it disconnected for?
Does your MIL light light up when you turn the key on before starting?
Its too bad you don't have a scan tool.
To really take this any further ,your just going to throw parts at it.
To totally understand OBDI /OBDII and how its components work and how they are all related to keep things running smoothly.The tech or person has to know the functions of all things involved.
To get to the bottom of this its either a proper scan tool or a good tech ,the latter maybe hard to find.
I will rattle this around and see if I come up with some things.
I'm beging to lean towards a reflash as I said at post #18 pcm firmware has a hand in this also.
But the no code light when knock sensor disconnected is interesting.
Rich
I left the knock sensor unplugged for one drive cycle of about 15 minutes. During that drive cycle, it pinged just like it did with it connected.
The "service engine soon" light illuminates when I turn the key on before I start the engine. An OBD II scan does not indicate any fault codes.
For the PCM reflash, is there a specifc code set I should request? Or do I just hope that my local Ford dealer will actually get the correct code set?
If I was going to purchase a scanner, what would I need to do proper diagnostics?
Eric
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Joined: Mar 2006
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I was told or read to check my serpentine belt. I never took this one seriously. Well my altenator took a digger, while changing the altenator I changed the belt......viola, no more ping.
I towed my 11k trailer like I rented it last weekend ,AC on and foot in it.
Worth a shot?
I towed my 11k trailer like I rented it last weekend ,AC on and foot in it.
Worth a shot?
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Pacific Northwet
I took it into an independent mechanic who has Ford training. He ran his scanner. During his test dirve he didn’t get a strong ping signal, most likely due to the fact the truck was empty and there weren’t any significant hills around. The truck pings the hardest on big hills. He did observe that the engine temp only got up to 195F on a warm day so he suspected the thermostat may be bad. I bought another Ford thermostat. The new thermostat opens at a few degrees lower and opens about twice as much as the original thermostat. Now, I need to run out the high octane fuel and get 87 octane fuel before I can do a test drive.
He suggested if that didn’t work, I should consider an injector/engine flush.
I asked about the PCM reflash. He checked the service notes and there were not any reflashes for pinging. He suggested that if I wanted to reflash, that instead of the Ford reflash, that I should get an aftermarket chip that I could program the parameters to address the pinging.
He suggested if that didn’t work, I should consider an injector/engine flush.
I asked about the PCM reflash. He checked the service notes and there were not any reflashes for pinging. He suggested that if I wanted to reflash, that instead of the Ford reflash, that I should get an aftermarket chip that I could program the parameters to address the pinging.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Massachusetts
Get this, I have had some light to moderate ping for sometime now. I have noticed slight loss in power at the same time. The ping was very inconsistant. I was blaming it on poor quality control in gasoline. The other day on the way home my truck shuttered and shook and began missing very badly. I had a bad coil on the #8 cylinder. Replaced the coil and guess what? I have all the power back and the the engine has not pinged once! I surmise the coil just didn't stop working all of a sudden. Rather it was malfunctioning for some time before it finally gave up completely.
Some thing to think about.
Some thing to think about.
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Junior User
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Pacific Northwet
My engine (fortunately) has made consistent power.
I expect that the scanner would have picked up a bad coil. There was nothing picked up.
If the scanner didn't show a misfire/bad coil, then the best I could do would be to swap out coils in the hope of making a difference.
I expect that the scanner would have picked up a bad coil. There was nothing picked up.
If the scanner didn't show a misfire/bad coil, then the best I could do would be to swap out coils in the hope of making a difference.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
The way coils operate is, you energize the coil with 12V, and then when you shut OFF the current, the coil fires.
It's called hysteresis. If the coil is getting "weird", it's possible for it to fire sooner than it should, throwing off the timing.
It's possible. But I wouldn't say "go for it - change the coils" without further investigation.
Maybe pull the plugs to see what condition each one is in... the "weird" cylinder would stick out like a sore thumb I'd think. But going through the plugs is pretty costly in terms of time.
It's called hysteresis. If the coil is getting "weird", it's possible for it to fire sooner than it should, throwing off the timing.
It's possible. But I wouldn't say "go for it - change the coils" without further investigation.
Maybe pull the plugs to see what condition each one is in... the "weird" cylinder would stick out like a sore thumb I'd think. But going through the plugs is pretty costly in terms of time.
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Junior User
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Pacific Northwet
The engine has pinged the same since I purchased it.
When I changed the plugs about 8k miles ago, all of the plugs looked similar with light tan insulators. There was not any plug that looked noticeably different than the others.
When I changed the plugs about 8k miles ago, all of the plugs looked similar with light tan insulators. There was not any plug that looked noticeably different than the others.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
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Careful, that's not what hysteresis is!
Better use the term ''saturation' of the magnetic field and core.
The collapse of the magnetic field induces the hi voltage into the secondary winding of a step-up transformer (cop) or any transformer.
Ping is either/or/and fuel that has too fast a combustion speed or the spark has been started sleightly to early.
This causes the combustion pressure to peak to early after top center and "rings" the pistons, heads and block from the shock of it.
Reason: the piston/rod is to closely aligned near the straight up and down position and can't move fast enough in response to the fast pressure peak hence the ping. If it gets intense enough it becomes 'knock'.
A leaky EGR will cause the timing to advance and can very well cause ping.
I have a monitor that can see ignition timing. When I use a hand vacuum pump on the EGR and force it to let some exhaust pass, the timing advances quite far.
This is a reaction of the PCM to the odd condition when it's not called for by the program.
Better use the term ''saturation' of the magnetic field and core.
The collapse of the magnetic field induces the hi voltage into the secondary winding of a step-up transformer (cop) or any transformer.
Ping is either/or/and fuel that has too fast a combustion speed or the spark has been started sleightly to early.
This causes the combustion pressure to peak to early after top center and "rings" the pistons, heads and block from the shock of it.
Reason: the piston/rod is to closely aligned near the straight up and down position and can't move fast enough in response to the fast pressure peak hence the ping. If it gets intense enough it becomes 'knock'.
A leaky EGR will cause the timing to advance and can very well cause ping.
I have a monitor that can see ignition timing. When I use a hand vacuum pump on the EGR and force it to let some exhaust pass, the timing advances quite far.
This is a reaction of the PCM to the odd condition when it's not called for by the program.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,733
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I think Art's use is technically correct for what he was saying...
Hysteresis phenomena occur in magnetic and ferromagnetic materials, as well as in the elastic and electromagnetic behavior of materials, in which a lag occurs between the application and the removal of a force or field and its subsequent effect. Electric hysteresis occurs when applying a varying electric field, and elastic hysteresis occurs in response to a varying force. The term "hysteresis" is sometimes used in other fields, such as economics or biology. In such cases it describes a memory or lagging effect in which the order of previous events can influence the order of subsequent events.
to read a more complete set of info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteresis#Magnetic_hysteresis
Hysteresis phenomena occur in magnetic and ferromagnetic materials, as well as in the elastic and electromagnetic behavior of materials, in which a lag occurs between the application and the removal of a force or field and its subsequent effect. Electric hysteresis occurs when applying a varying electric field, and elastic hysteresis occurs in response to a varying force. The term "hysteresis" is sometimes used in other fields, such as economics or biology. In such cases it describes a memory or lagging effect in which the order of previous events can influence the order of subsequent events.
to read a more complete set of info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteresis#Magnetic_hysteresis
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
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From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by Fredvon4
I think Art's use is technically correct for what he was saying...
The cause of the coil firing IS hysteresis... Just like a reverse-bias diode sitting across a relay's contacts (I dare you to touch an old Ford solenoid's start terminal as you release the key from START 
)