need 360 wake up help?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
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From: "Islander"
Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ
got rid of the advanced cam timing trouble your 72 prob'ly has too.Retarding the stock cam 4 degrees will do a pretty good job of undoing that monkey business. 
More power -and- better gas mileage -and- more usable power range.Alvin in AZ
More power -and- better gas mileage -and- more usable power range.Alvin in AZEvery FE I've worked on or owned woke up by advancing the cam including fuel mileage gains.
360's have the BMEP numbers matching Briggs & Stratton, why reduce it more by retarding may I ask?
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Gadsden Purchase
Originally Posted by Beemer Nut
Seems every FE thru that era had their cams retarded, even replacement gear sets were retarded due to the smog restraints they had to meet.
Every FE I've worked on or owned woke up by advancing the cam including fuel mileage gains.
360's have the BMEP numbers matching Briggs & Stratton, why reduce it more by retarding may I ask?
Every FE I've worked on or owned woke up by advancing the cam including fuel mileage gains.
360's have the BMEP numbers matching Briggs & Stratton, why reduce it more by retarding may I ask?
Sorry 'bout that.
The stock cams were retarded and so gave very little bottom end and lots of top end that the 2 barrel carb etc couldn't keep up with, so there was a limit on both ends, in practice.
My new Comp cam is more advanced and produces more usable bottom end and it can now be felt, that there's a upper limit caused by the cam timing that couldn't be felt before. But it works out good, that starts at about 85mph.
Before, if there was any incline at all, the pickup could not pull itself from 31mph in fourth gear. Now I'm not sure where the bottom of that range is but it's down there below 20mph.
Funny how many times I've had to correct others on this very mistake i just made. :)
My re-builder said he could get good results from a stock cam by -advancing;)- it 4 degrees. I went with the Comp economy cam 252/252 anyway.
Comp has better cams for FE's now. :)
Alvin in AZ
ps- gonna pull the carb today looking for my vacuum leak
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
You have to be careful and check the cam manufactures specs as they already removed that 4 degree retarded grind then you correct again your at plus 8 degrees. This will increase low end more causing the cam to sign off sooner on top end plus increase dynamic compression beyond pump gas, detonation city. Not a little is good more is better thing. I like 3-4 degrees advanced as the truck has long legs, low stall plus allowing for future chain stretch.
How low are the numbers now for passing smog in AZ. these days for our older trucks?
How low are the numbers now for passing smog in AZ. these days for our older trucks?
Last edited by "Beemer Nut"; Mar 28, 2007 at 11:05 AM.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,760
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From: Gadsden Purchase
Originally Posted by Beemer Nut
How low are the numbers now for passing smog in AZ. these days for our older trucks?
Idle Standard:
HC = 350
CO = 4.00
Last time my HC was way down there at 75
but my CO was 3.99.
Whew... :)
Got 'til January to figure that one out. ;) Got any ideas?
I turn the mixture screws all the way in and set the idle at about 750 to 800rpm ...just the way the guy did that took my 20 dollar bill many years ago ...then he un-did it after i passed and kept the 20. ;)
One reason i went with the Comp cam 252/252 instead of Crane's 248/256(?) was the guys said the Comp cam would pass emissions easier.
They had both cams on the counter and claimed is wasn't about money.
What do you think?
Alvin in AZ
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
Even the 348/256 seems small enough to pass.
Towards the end of smog testing here in Cali (69 truck) I passed with the 414 motor with a 270/290 CJ cam idle held at 950 rpm's. On the 2,500 test it ran too clean and would get a "exhaust dilution" flashing on the machine 60% of the time. Co IIRC was 8.5% and I was just under the limit.
I haven't heard results with the product you add to the fuel they guarantee reduces smog numbers by half.
A little off topic in vehicle I went from a 285 to 260 cam but faster acceleration rate on a 95 MPI motor with performance chip, idle HC 4 of 100 max, 2,500 rpm HC 5 of 180 max. Runs stronger with a 260 vs 285, I should of installed a bigger cam. 95 4.6 Rover.
Towards the end of smog testing here in Cali (69 truck) I passed with the 414 motor with a 270/290 CJ cam idle held at 950 rpm's. On the 2,500 test it ran too clean and would get a "exhaust dilution" flashing on the machine 60% of the time. Co IIRC was 8.5% and I was just under the limit.
I haven't heard results with the product you add to the fuel they guarantee reduces smog numbers by half.
A little off topic in vehicle I went from a 285 to 260 cam but faster acceleration rate on a 95 MPI motor with performance chip, idle HC 4 of 100 max, 2,500 rpm HC 5 of 180 max. Runs stronger with a 260 vs 285, I should of installed a bigger cam. 95 4.6 Rover.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 421
From: Long Island USA
To lower CO (carbon monoxide) you have to make the burn more complete and more efficient. Higher power spark, multi-spark like the MSD (REALLY lowered mine in the highboy), and of course, matching the compression to the cam is very important.
Too lean, CO goes up. Too rich, CO goes up. It's a great indicator for how the engine is running.
HC's on the other hand, too rich, they go up, too lean, they go down. But too lean, and CO goes up.
There's a fine line in there somewhere.
I recently had my 2001 V10 emissions inspected. With an idle sniffer test. The limits were HC=300, CO=3 !?!?!? I think that means I could legally remove the cat and still pass, as my hipo 390 (11:1, 292/292adv cam) was under 250 when I had it checked (no cats) last.
Anyway, the best way to get the HC and CO down is to make sure the ignition is perfect (or better than perfect with a multi-spark especially with a lopey cam), the carb is tuned correctly - and if it's only an idle test, you just have to make sure it's idling well...
Too lean, CO goes up. Too rich, CO goes up. It's a great indicator for how the engine is running.
HC's on the other hand, too rich, they go up, too lean, they go down. But too lean, and CO goes up.
There's a fine line in there somewhere.
I recently had my 2001 V10 emissions inspected. With an idle sniffer test. The limits were HC=300, CO=3 !?!?!? I think that means I could legally remove the cat and still pass, as my hipo 390 (11:1, 292/292adv cam) was under 250 when I had it checked (no cats) last.
Anyway, the best way to get the HC and CO down is to make sure the ignition is perfect (or better than perfect with a multi-spark especially with a lopey cam), the carb is tuned correctly - and if it's only an idle test, you just have to make sure it's idling well...
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
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From: Long Island USA
Originally Posted by Beemer Nut
Might add, set the idle up higher but below maximum allowed.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Vallejo, CA
Originally Posted by Beemer Nut
The last time I had to have the 68 tested I came up cleaner on the sniffer by having timing retarded to the maximum allowed.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 482
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From: orange county ca.
I Have A 69 360 And I Am In The Middle Of Doing All The Same Stuff You Want To Do. Last Weekend I Just Put On A Edelbrock Performer Manifold And A 600cfm Holley Carb. I Also Put The Durasprark Dist. In And Ran It Off Of A Msd 6al Box. I Am Going To Do The Headers And Exhaust This Weekend Or Next. Just By Changing The Intake, Carb And Dist. The Thing Runs So Much Better. I Love How Smooth It Idles. I Could Put A Glass Of Water On The Air Cleaner And It Wouldnt Spill!
By The Way, If You Change The Carb To A 4 Barrel. You Are Going To Have To Make A New Throttle Linkage. The Stock One From The 2 Barrel Is Too Short.
By The Way, If You Change The Carb To A 4 Barrel. You Are Going To Have To Make A New Throttle Linkage. The Stock One From The 2 Barrel Is Too Short.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Likes: 91
From: Concord, CA
Originally Posted by fastmover
I thought pre '76 vehicles did not have to be smogged in CA. That is why I am getting a '70.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
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From: "Islander"
My 468 inch AMC powered 69 Javelin was off the road for years until it didn't require smog. Big bump stick 11.75 cr scared kids and old ladies.
I hear some dirty talk about some bill to go back to 1966 in Cali. plus any vehicle over 15 years old to have annual smog testing.
I hear some dirty talk about some bill to go back to 1966 in Cali. plus any vehicle over 15 years old to have annual smog testing.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 4
From: Golden, CO
Geeeeeez Carl! It must be all those transplants who decided to leave this state and return home. They found something else to screw up!
It's not that bad. Equipment only has to meet Federal (48 state?) and pass the tail-pipe test; no treadmill. If it's over 25 years old, and you have the coin, you can get antique plates and not worry for another five years...unless it smokes.
It's not that bad. Equipment only has to meet Federal (48 state?) and pass the tail-pipe test; no treadmill. If it's over 25 years old, and you have the coin, you can get antique plates and not worry for another five years...unless it smokes.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,077
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From: Vallejo, CA
CA. SMOG Exemption Legistlation
Carl,
I am sorry if this is hijacking the thread. Here is a link to the legistlation you were talking about.
And here is the part of it that you mentioned. I see the 15 year old rule, but nothing about exemptions for 1966 or older cars.
44012.5. (a) The department shall incorporate annual inspection
of motor vehicles 15 or greater model years old into the motor
vehicle inspection and maintenance program by July 1, 2008.
(b) All funds generated through additional inspection fees shall
be deposited into the High Polluter Repair or Removal Account created
by Section 44091.
(c) (1) All motor vehicles not subject to biannual inspection
shall also be exempt from annual inspection.
(2) The department shall develop a methodology to exempt vehicles
or classes of vehicles likely to pass annual inspection.
I am hoping that since pre-76 autos are exempt now, that part (b) applies to them.
I am still looking for laws changing the smog exemption laws for pre 76 cars.
Karl
I am sorry if this is hijacking the thread. Here is a link to the legistlation you were talking about.
And here is the part of it that you mentioned. I see the 15 year old rule, but nothing about exemptions for 1966 or older cars.
44012.5. (a) The department shall incorporate annual inspection
of motor vehicles 15 or greater model years old into the motor
vehicle inspection and maintenance program by July 1, 2008.
(b) All funds generated through additional inspection fees shall
be deposited into the High Polluter Repair or Removal Account created
by Section 44091.
(c) (1) All motor vehicles not subject to biannual inspection
shall also be exempt from annual inspection.
(2) The department shall develop a methodology to exempt vehicles
or classes of vehicles likely to pass annual inspection.
I am hoping that since pre-76 autos are exempt now, that part (b) applies to them.
I am still looking for laws changing the smog exemption laws for pre 76 cars.
Karl