Starter works when cold, slow when hot :/
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Joined: May 2003
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Starter works when cold, slow when hot :/
My 1984 Bronco Xlt 351 stroked to 408 w/C6 trans with duraspark 2 ign is having trouble starting when hot.
when the truck hasnt been run for 2-3 hours, the truck starts first time no trouble.
if you try to start the truck soon after you turn it off after say 20 mins of driving, the starter turns really slowly. where there is usually a 'ru-ru-ru-ru-ru-ru-Vroom' of the cold engine there is now '....ru..... ....ru..... ....ru.... ' and engine wont start on the hot engine.
I have noticed the following;
when engine wont start, the positive cable from starter solenoid to starter is very hot. i tried jumping it with a decent gauge starter lead, but it didnt help.
I also tried attaching a jumpstarter pack rated at 1200 amps, no change at all. i then tried, just to be sure, jumping the solenoid-to-starter cable as well as connecting the jumper pack to the battery & body... still no change.
but i know if i leave it for 2 or so hours, the truck will start fine.
I should also add that the start is brand new, and the engine is low compression 8.5:1
anyone able to help?
- Sean
when the truck hasnt been run for 2-3 hours, the truck starts first time no trouble.
if you try to start the truck soon after you turn it off after say 20 mins of driving, the starter turns really slowly. where there is usually a 'ru-ru-ru-ru-ru-ru-Vroom' of the cold engine there is now '....ru..... ....ru..... ....ru.... ' and engine wont start on the hot engine.
I have noticed the following;
when engine wont start, the positive cable from starter solenoid to starter is very hot. i tried jumping it with a decent gauge starter lead, but it didnt help.
I also tried attaching a jumpstarter pack rated at 1200 amps, no change at all. i then tried, just to be sure, jumping the solenoid-to-starter cable as well as connecting the jumper pack to the battery & body... still no change.
but i know if i leave it for 2 or so hours, the truck will start fine.
I should also add that the start is brand new, and the engine is low compression 8.5:1
anyone able to help?
- Sean
FTE Legend
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 53,994
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From: NY and VA
Sounds like the bushings are worn in the starter. The cable getting hot down to the starter indicates something wrong down that way. Are all ground connections good? I have run a ground from the battery to the starter bolt but, if the ground connections are ok you shouldn't have to.
MSEE
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,386
Likes: 35
From: Austin, TX
I agree and believe the starter is bad. I'll throw in my vote for parts store starters being terrible as well. They last a year and then all the teeth on the drive gear are gone. They like to nibble at your flywheel too.
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,507
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From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
the starter may very well be fine, and is just to close to the exhaust and getting heat soaked. this was a very big problem with the V8 G.M. cars of the 50's. the solution was to put a heat shield between the starter and exhaust. 90% of the time, the metal plate heat shield fixed the problem.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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From: SW Florida
Your problem is that there is definitely more resistance from the starter when the motor is hot. Do you have headers? A heat sheild between the exhaust and the starter helps.
Another frequent problem people overlook is the battery cables. Use large gauge cables with solder on ends, and 99% of your starting problems will disappear. Small gauge cables, bolt on battery ends and crimped terminals all equal resistance when everything gets hot.
Another frequent problem people overlook is the battery cables. Use large gauge cables with solder on ends, and 99% of your starting problems will disappear. Small gauge cables, bolt on battery ends and crimped terminals all equal resistance when everything gets hot.
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From: Virginia
It may well be something else, but setting the timing back is an free easy thing to try. If this is the problem, what I have done also is flood the engine by pumping the gas a couple of times. This makes it miss-fire enough to where the starter can gain some momentum, and then it will usually catch and start. If this works, it's been my experience the initial timing is up a little too far.
I don't know if you are aware of this, but if you have your engine set up with heads and pistons that normally give you 8.5 to 1, and then you stroke the engine, the compression ratio wil be higher.
I don't know if you are aware of this, but if you have your engine set up with heads and pistons that normally give you 8.5 to 1, and then you stroke the engine, the compression ratio wil be higher.
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yup, i have headers, and they pass pretty close to the starter.
I'm going to do a number of things, replace the cable from solenoid to starter, buy a new battery cause the one i have is too damn small anyway, and as for the heat sheilding, im not sure how to do that, where would i get heat sheilding from?
regarding the timing - i have two wires going from the distributor to the coil. nothing i can see going to the starter solenoid.
I'm worried about the cable between the starter and the solenoid heating up like that. it is really hot to the touch after driving, much more so than you would expect. almost to the point that the plastic insulation is soft.
While im at it, ill replace the solenoid as well.
You know the sound a starter makes when the battery is almost dead? thats the noise mine makes when engine is hot. that really slow turn over.
I'm going to do a number of things, replace the cable from solenoid to starter, buy a new battery cause the one i have is too damn small anyway, and as for the heat sheilding, im not sure how to do that, where would i get heat sheilding from?
regarding the timing - i have two wires going from the distributor to the coil. nothing i can see going to the starter solenoid.
I'm worried about the cable between the starter and the solenoid heating up like that. it is really hot to the touch after driving, much more so than you would expect. almost to the point that the plastic insulation is soft.
While im at it, ill replace the solenoid as well.
You know the sound a starter makes when the battery is almost dead? thats the noise mine makes when engine is hot. that really slow turn over.
Last edited by Scopie; Mar 5, 2007 at 12:11 AM.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
regarding the timing - i have two wires going from the distributor to the coil. nothing i can see going to the starter solenoid.
If you do not have a timing light, I can understand why you don't want to try it.
MSEE
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,386
Likes: 35
From: Austin, TX
I have an LTD with Duraspark II, however it only has the one wire from the solenoid (red). The original was that way. I haven't traced the white wire coming off the DS box yet, but my guess is that it runs to the ignition switch to pick up hot in start. I really don't know.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,724
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From: Blue Hill Township
What size are your batter cables going from the negative terminal to the body/frame and from the engine to the body/frame? How 'about from the positive terminal to the solenoid on the fender and from the solenoid to the starter?
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From: Virginia
Originally Posted by fmc400
I have an LTD with Duraspark II, however it only has the one wire from the solenoid (red). The original was that way. I haven't traced the white wire coming off the DS box yet, but my guess is that it runs to the ignition switch to pick up hot in start. I really don't know.
I have had other types of cars that would do this, and several times it was intermittent. What it turned out to be was the advance weights were rusty and sticking. So they would stick advanced, especially after I got through horsing around and they flung way out, and it would start hard. A little bit of wd40 was the fix.
Other times it was me fooling around with the timing, and getting it too far advanced. A guy I worked with had problems with his race engine, and he put a kill switch on the ignition. He would get it cranking with the ignition off, and then flip the switch after the engine was turning over.
It is a well known fact that headers do cause starter problems, though I guess it depends on the vehicle and the circumstances. It could be any of the suggestions given in the previous posts.