5.4 cam phaser
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 101
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Ford seems to like replacing phasers and lashers which seems to rarely fix the noise.
Have you tried changing the oil and filter back to something of a reasonable quality level.
There are aftermarket phasers available and my understanding is that they do require a reflash. These units limit cam travel in order to allow for more aggressive cam profiles.
I believe the phaser / lasher issues with the early 5.4 3v engines is related to the oil flow / distribution system of the engine block. They did improve the phaser design by replacing the spring roll pins used to attach the key wheel to the phaser hub with solid pins. However, it seems the hydraulic system is marginal which allows the timing chain and phasers to slap around at low pressure conditions.
Have you tried changing the oil and filter back to something of a reasonable quality level.
There are aftermarket phasers available and my understanding is that they do require a reflash. These units limit cam travel in order to allow for more aggressive cam profiles.
I believe the phaser / lasher issues with the early 5.4 3v engines is related to the oil flow / distribution system of the engine block. They did improve the phaser design by replacing the spring roll pins used to attach the key wheel to the phaser hub with solid pins. However, it seems the hydraulic system is marginal which allows the timing chain and phasers to slap around at low pressure conditions.
i have to replace the phasers on my dads 05 screw he has drove it around for about month with it running like crap (not idling). this is how it started.He took it to tire rama in spokane to change the oil he has been running royal purple oil in since the day he bought it new. about 5 blocks down the road it started to run really rough so he took it back and they wouldn't do anything for him so he had to wait a week until he could have ford look at it.Ford said it was the phasers so i have been researching on how to fix these and have a few ????
1) with him driving it for so long im worried that the pin on the back of the phaser may have broke and i will have to take the front cover off. Is there a way to tell if the pin has broke other than taking it all apart (it runs fine at high rpms) if the pin is broke is there a way to realign the motor and and not have to remove the front cover?
2) Is there a aftermarket phaser to put on? i really dont want to install a oem phaser that will have the same problems that original one had.
3) if i do use a aftermarket lockout phaser do i have to use a chip?
any input would be awsome
ps i dont think this will be much fun my 7.3L dsl is not as complicated as this thing
1) with him driving it for so long im worried that the pin on the back of the phaser may have broke and i will have to take the front cover off. Is there a way to tell if the pin has broke other than taking it all apart (it runs fine at high rpms) if the pin is broke is there a way to realign the motor and and not have to remove the front cover?
2) Is there a aftermarket phaser to put on? i really dont want to install a oem phaser that will have the same problems that original one had.
3) if i do use a aftermarket lockout phaser do i have to use a chip?
any input would be awsome
ps i dont think this will be much fun my 7.3L dsl is not as complicated as this thing
New User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
ok thank you pete497 im going to take the vct's out today and make sure they aren't clogged up why is it that the truck runs fine until it warms up?Is the ecm programed to keep the phasers off until the engine gets to a certain temp if so can i just unplug the temp sensor 
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 101
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The ECM doesn't activate the solenoid until the engine reaches some predetermined running temp. I think there is a spring loaded dowel pin that locks the phasers down until the solenoid opens but I don't remember exaclty. There is a link to a video that has been posted here that explains VCT function very well. It is also variable with engine RPM.
I thought about doing something like that myself, like pluging up the oil passage so the phasers remain locked out. But I'm note sure it would be a good idea.
I thought about doing something like that myself, like pluging up the oil passage so the phasers remain locked out. But I'm note sure it would be a good idea.
ok thank you pete497 im going to take the vct's out today and make sure they aren't clogged up why is it that the truck runs fine until it warms up?Is the ecm programed to keep the phasers off until the engine gets to a certain temp if so can i just unplug the temp sensor
New User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
spark plug issue
All
I have the same knock and the dealer told me today it was the cam phaser which will cost 1300 dollars. Has any had problems replacing their spark plugs in the 5.4L F-150 trucks? It just cost me 639 dollar for spark plug replacement. Next question has anyone had luck with Ford Motor Company covering the cost of the extra costs. I beleive that this is due to a engineering problem with the engine which Ford should be addressing. Yes there service call center has said that the engineers have sent kits to the dealerships for removing the plugs but they will not assist in the redesign or recall the trucks for this problem. What happened to the day when a guy could get the plugs and changes his own without special tools and stuff. This will be the last Ford I purchase.
I have the same knock and the dealer told me today it was the cam phaser which will cost 1300 dollars. Has any had problems replacing their spark plugs in the 5.4L F-150 trucks? It just cost me 639 dollar for spark plug replacement. Next question has anyone had luck with Ford Motor Company covering the cost of the extra costs. I beleive that this is due to a engineering problem with the engine which Ford should be addressing. Yes there service call center has said that the engineers have sent kits to the dealerships for removing the plugs but they will not assist in the redesign or recall the trucks for this problem. What happened to the day when a guy could get the plugs and changes his own without special tools and stuff. This will be the last Ford I purchase.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 687
Likes: 1
All
I have the same knock and the dealer told me today it was the cam phaser which will cost 1300 dollars. Has any had problems replacing their spark plugs in the 5.4L F-150 trucks? It just cost me 639 dollar for spark plug replacement. Next question has anyone had luck with Ford Motor Company covering the cost of the extra costs. I beleive that this is due to a engineering problem with the engine which Ford should be addressing. Yes there service call center has said that the engineers have sent kits to the dealerships for removing the plugs but they will not assist in the redesign or recall the trucks for this problem. What happened to the day when a guy could get the plugs and changes his own without special tools and stuff. This will be the last Ford I purchase.
I have the same knock and the dealer told me today it was the cam phaser which will cost 1300 dollars. Has any had problems replacing their spark plugs in the 5.4L F-150 trucks? It just cost me 639 dollar for spark plug replacement. Next question has anyone had luck with Ford Motor Company covering the cost of the extra costs. I beleive that this is due to a engineering problem with the engine which Ford should be addressing. Yes there service call center has said that the engineers have sent kits to the dealerships for removing the plugs but they will not assist in the redesign or recall the trucks for this problem. What happened to the day when a guy could get the plugs and changes his own without special tools and stuff. This will be the last Ford I purchase.
New User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Kelso, Washington
Ok, I'm not trying to **** anyone off by trying to cross sites here. But I'm a member of f150online as well. And here is what you need http://www.f150online.com/forums/art...placement.html This guy will even mail you his cam phaser tool if you ask nicely and send it back.
IMO, if you can handle the noise, don't worry about cam phaser noise. My 04 has been doing for over 100,000 miles now (truck has 145000, bought it at 40000). And I've had no problems. Very good friend of mine is a Ford tech, and he told me that other than noise, there is no problem with the cam phasers, and half the time, the noise will come back.
Moderators, please forgive me for that link, I'm just trying to help fellow ford owners.
Eric
IMO, if you can handle the noise, don't worry about cam phaser noise. My 04 has been doing for over 100,000 miles now (truck has 145000, bought it at 40000). And I've had no problems. Very good friend of mine is a Ford tech, and he told me that other than noise, there is no problem with the cam phasers, and half the time, the noise will come back.
Moderators, please forgive me for that link, I'm just trying to help fellow ford owners.
Eric
New User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
well i replaced the phasers and the passenger side one was about to come apart i did this just in time all three roll pins were broke im lucky the phaser didn't come apart while the engine was running. putting the phasers in solved my ticking problems but more problems came up so i took it to the dealer and they said it was out of time.Well it wasn't so we didn't have to pay for them to take it all apart and check they found a broken wire going to the pcm fixed it and it still ran like crap so they changed the plugs and screwed up a hole so they fixed that and put new plugs in and some new coil packs. all is good now by the way i built my own wedge and it worked!!!!!
New User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
cam phaseer and timing chain guides
purchased my 2004 fx4 s crew 4 years ago , noticed the knock at 18000km took it in to the dealer ship they told me the sound is normal comes from the cam phasers, brought it in later hoping for a better answer to the knock guy says it might be the timing chain guides worn causing the belt to hit the casing, but not to worry about it. So my truck (with out warrnty) now has 67000 km on it the knocking is awfully loud coming from the front of the motor and the back (cam area). should this have been fixed when I first brought it in ? now that warranty is gone should i go after Ford to have this fixed or would i just be waisting my time. I have been given a quote for $4000 is this normal . thanks
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
It is that exact pass the buck BS that I am sick of from Ford on this issue!! I too was told under Ford warranty that this generation 5.4 motor is "just a noisey motor by nature." Now at 59,000 it is really loud and a different dealer said it is for sure the phasers. Now a third party warranty company won't fix it unless I produce all my receipts and oil change records, which of course I do not have...This truck has been in the shop so much since I got it that you would not believe it. I really hate to say this, but I have been looking at Toyota and will no longer automatically give my business to Ford.
New User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
ford dealer stepped up
FInally got a break on these cam phasers and timing chain, the ford dealer told me that warranty will probally not fix the problem , so the dealer gave me a sweet deal on the work to be done. The bill is still around $2000 but thats better than the $4000 i was quoted before.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Steve, the noise you describe in the back, doesn't really sound like a cam phaser issue. I would suggest you look at the TSB and try to diagnose the sound yourself. $2000 sounds a lot better than $4000 but unless they are going to guarantee it will fix the problem its a waste. By they way, I bet you could have a completely remaned engine installed for not much more than that.
New User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
cam phasers major issues
I have had my expedition for 5 years and since the first week I had it I complained to the dealership about the knocking in my engine and the fact that it sounded like a diesel half the time. I have had my truck in and out of service so much I feel like I only have visitation rights! I just got my truck back after ford had it for two months replacing all electrical. Faulty cd player, faulty dvd player, heated seats failed, power mirrors failed, third row seats failed and before that the front air suspension collapsed. And again I have repeatedly asked them to check the engine knocking and diesel sounds. I was always told it was air conditioning or engine cooling or the air suspension lowering. Now two months after my warranty is over my cam phasers fail and in turn my tensioners and celenoids have to be replaced as well. The alberta rep for ford canada took three weeks to call me back after three phone calls and an email.
His answer...too bad the warranty is up. He couldnt be bothered to look at the truck history either. He said he never called me back because he checked warranty and since it was up he wasnt doing anything. Two dealerships and two service departments have all told me ...including the three ford reps I spoke to when I called ford canada..all said the truck is faulty. This Mark character at ford canada said the $4000.00 bill is my problem. He said if the service guys never noticed the problem, it was my problem. The fact that I am a fourth generation ford owner doesnt matter to ford. The fact that I paid $50,000.00 for a truck that is a money pit and unreliable doesnt matter to ford. The fact that the problem has been there since the first week I bought the truck doesnt matter to ford. The fact that the 5.4 liter 2004/2005 ford engine should have been recalled because of repeated issues with faulty cam phasers doesnt matter to ford. The service department at two different dealerships told me they have repeated issues with the navigator too.
I would not recomend the expediton or the ford motor company any more.
I used to think they were a company that represented quality and service. Clearly this is no longer the case. It is just not worth the headaches to buy a ford any more.
His answer...too bad the warranty is up. He couldnt be bothered to look at the truck history either. He said he never called me back because he checked warranty and since it was up he wasnt doing anything. Two dealerships and two service departments have all told me ...including the three ford reps I spoke to when I called ford canada..all said the truck is faulty. This Mark character at ford canada said the $4000.00 bill is my problem. He said if the service guys never noticed the problem, it was my problem. The fact that I am a fourth generation ford owner doesnt matter to ford. The fact that I paid $50,000.00 for a truck that is a money pit and unreliable doesnt matter to ford. The fact that the problem has been there since the first week I bought the truck doesnt matter to ford. The fact that the 5.4 liter 2004/2005 ford engine should have been recalled because of repeated issues with faulty cam phasers doesnt matter to ford. The service department at two different dealerships told me they have repeated issues with the navigator too.
I would not recomend the expediton or the ford motor company any more.
I used to think they were a company that represented quality and service. Clearly this is no longer the case. It is just not worth the headaches to buy a ford any more.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 3
I have had my expedition for 5 years and since the first week I had it I complained to the dealership about the knocking in my engine and the fact that it sounded like a diesel half the time. I have had my truck in and out of service so much I feel like I only have visitation rights! I just got my truck back after ford had it for two months replacing all electrical. Faulty cd player, faulty dvd player, heated seats failed, power mirrors failed, third row seats failed and before that the front air suspension collapsed. And again I have repeatedly asked them to check the engine knocking and diesel sounds. I was always told it was air conditioning or engine cooling or the air suspension lowering. Now two months after my warranty is over my cam phasers fail and in turn my tensioners and celenoids have to be replaced as well. The alberta rep for ford canada took three weeks to call me back after three phone calls and an email.
His answer...too bad the warranty is up. He couldnt be bothered to look at the truck history either. He said he never called me back because he checked warranty and since it was up he wasnt doing anything. Two dealerships and two service departments have all told me ...including the three ford reps I spoke to when I called ford canada..all said the truck is faulty. This Mark character at ford canada said the $4000.00 bill is my problem. He said if the service guys never noticed the problem, it was my problem. The fact that I am a fourth generation ford owner doesnt matter to ford. The fact that I paid $50,000.00 for a truck that is a money pit and unreliable doesnt matter to ford. The fact that the problem has been there since the first week I bought the truck doesnt matter to ford. The fact that the 5.4 liter 2004/2005 ford engine should have been recalled because of repeated issues with faulty cam phasers doesnt matter to ford. The service department at two different dealerships told me they have repeated issues with the navigator too.
I would not recomend the expediton or the ford motor company any more.
I used to think they were a company that represented quality and service. Clearly this is no longer the case. It is just not worth the headaches to buy a ford any more.
His answer...too bad the warranty is up. He couldnt be bothered to look at the truck history either. He said he never called me back because he checked warranty and since it was up he wasnt doing anything. Two dealerships and two service departments have all told me ...including the three ford reps I spoke to when I called ford canada..all said the truck is faulty. This Mark character at ford canada said the $4000.00 bill is my problem. He said if the service guys never noticed the problem, it was my problem. The fact that I am a fourth generation ford owner doesnt matter to ford. The fact that I paid $50,000.00 for a truck that is a money pit and unreliable doesnt matter to ford. The fact that the problem has been there since the first week I bought the truck doesnt matter to ford. The fact that the 5.4 liter 2004/2005 ford engine should have been recalled because of repeated issues with faulty cam phasers doesnt matter to ford. The service department at two different dealerships told me they have repeated issues with the navigator too.
I would not recomend the expediton or the ford motor company any more.
I used to think they were a company that represented quality and service. Clearly this is no longer the case. It is just not worth the headaches to buy a ford any more.
New User
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Camshaft Phaser and Sprocket <SUP>
Printable View (200 KB)</SUP>
****** content="Camshaft Phaser and Sprocket" name=tps_proctitle>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="50%" border=1><CAPTION>Special Tool(s)</CAPTION><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>
</TD><TD vAlign=top>Locking Tool, Timing Chain
303-1175</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Removal
Printable View (200 KB)</SUP> ****** content="Camshaft Phaser and Sprocket" name=tps_proctitle>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="50%" border=1><CAPTION>Special Tool(s)</CAPTION><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>
</TD><TD vAlign=top>Locking Tool, Timing Chain 303-1175</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Removal
- If servicing the RH camshaft phaser and sprocket, remove the RH camshaft. For additional information, refer to Camshaft — RH in this section.
- If servicing the LH camshaft phaser and sprocket, remove the LH camshaft. For additional information, refer to Camshaft — LH in this section.
- NOTICE: Damage to the camshaft phaser and sprocket assembly will occur if mishandled or used as a lifting or leveraging device.
NOTE: Do not remove the Timing Chain Locking Tool at any time during assembly. If the Timing Chain Locking Tool is removed or out of placement, the engine front cover must be removed and the engine must be retimed. For additional information, refer to Timing Drive Components in this section.
Remove the camshaft phaser and sprocket from the timing chain.
- Inspect the front of the camshaft phaser and sprocket for missing or damaged roll pins.
- If the roll pins are missing or damaged, a new camshaft phaser and sprocket must be installed.
- Inspect the rear of the camshaft phaser and sprocket for a deformed or damaged location pin.
- If the location pin is deformed or damaged, a new camshaft phaser and sprocket must be installed.
- Visually inspect the camshaft phaser and sprocket for squareness (A). If the trigger wheel or spring is deformed or damaged (B), install a new camshaft phaser and sprocket.
- NOTICE: Damage to the camshaft phaser and sprocket assembly will occur if mishandled or used as a lifting or leveraging device.
If installing a new camshaft phaser and sprocket, transfer the original scribe mark to the new camshaft phaser and sprocket.
- NOTICE: The timing chain must be installed in its original position onto the camshaft phaser and sprocket using the scribed marks, or damage to valves and pistons will result.
NOTICE: Damage to the camshaft phaser and sprocket assembly will occur if mishandled or used as a lifting or leveraging device.
Align the scribe marks and position the camshaft phaser and sprocket into the timing chain.
- If servicing the RH camshaft phaser and sprocket, install the RH camshaft. For additional information, refer to Camshaft — RH in this section.
- If servicing the LH camshaft phaser and sprocket, install the LH camshaft. For additional information, refer to Camshaft — LH in this section.