Brakes - continuing problems.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 12
From: Upstate NY
Brakes - continuing problems.
I put new Hawk brakes and Brembo rotors on our '03 Escape - and opened this thread in November:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...nt-brakes.html
While I had absolutely no problems with the installation and the brakes are very much better then the OEM equipment, the vehicle has been plagued with what I have to describe as a less than great pedal. I have bled them on the off chance that I may have introduced a bit of air in the lines when I retracted the calper pistons and no air was expelled. To the best of my knowledge there is no external indicator on the proportioning valve and no check brakes dash light has come on. I cannot imagine that the MC is damaged, but stranger things have happened. So with that being said, is there something I have overlooked?
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...nt-brakes.html
While I had absolutely no problems with the installation and the brakes are very much better then the OEM equipment, the vehicle has been plagued with what I have to describe as a less than great pedal. I have bled them on the off chance that I may have introduced a bit of air in the lines when I retracted the calper pistons and no air was expelled. To the best of my knowledge there is no external indicator on the proportioning valve and no check brakes dash light has come on. I cannot imagine that the MC is damaged, but stranger things have happened. So with that being said, is there something I have overlooked?
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 3
From: Sarnia, Ontario, CANADA!
When you pushed in the calipers did you loosen the bleeder screw first to allow the excess brake fluid to go out it. Or did you just push the excess back into the master cylinder?
-Matt
-Matt
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: St. Peter
Okay, does your escape have rear drum brakes? or are they disc? Next, how do you bleed your brakes? just pump the pedal and release the bleeder screw? or do you use a vacuum pump? It may not be a bad idea to take it to a place like tires plus that has a machine. I work at a tires plus and we actually just got a new machine that hooks up to all 4 bleeders and the abs/proportioning valve (optional) and actually sucks fluid from the bleeders and has another attachment that hooks up to the master cylinder and forces fluid through that. it works really well, there was a night and day difference when i used it on my truck. Another thing that really helped was adjusting the back brakes too.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 12
From: Upstate NY
The pistons were pushed back the "old fashioned" way with a big C clamp, forcing the fluid back. Just like I've done it for 40 years. While I will need to flush the system, this should not have any bearing on pedal unless there was some air that got into the system, but can't imagine how. It's a solid column of fluid back to the MC, with no leaks so should not have any source of air contamination. The first pumps with a full MC will push the pistons out, with no possible air admittedI'll get my Mity-Vac out and see if that will do a better job then my wife pumping and holding. My history with a Mity-Vac is that the tool is good for vacuum operated valves and switches, it just doesn't work well for bleeding hydraulic systems (brakes)
Another look at the rear brake adjustment might be a good idea but the adjustment seemed OK. But JIC, another look wont hurt
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Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: St. Peter
Also look at your self adjusters when you pull your drums off. On my truck the self adjuster cable had stretched and the self adjusters wouldnt keep the brakes adjusted properly. Worth a shot anyway. Otherwise, without air in the system and everything adjusted properly you shouldnt have a problem.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 3
From: Sarnia, Ontario, CANADA!
Well, now with newer vehicles having ABS and things I have heard you will want to open the bleeder screw before pushing the piston back in. You can cause all sorts of problems with the ABS and also the Master Cylinder if you just push them in and let the fluid go into the Master cylinder. Just what I have heard though. 
-Matt
-Matt
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From: St. Peter
where i work i've never seen the mechanics open a bleeder screw. They just do it the old fashion way and push the piston back up.
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Senior User
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: new jersey
if it has abs you need to be hooked up to a ford computer tool that tells the abs to open the internal bleeders.also when ever putting in new pads the reccormended way is to crack open the bleeders as you force the piston back in or you push all the crud stuck in the calipers back up into the abs and master cylinder causeing even more problems then you started with.the most commom being the soft pedal you feel.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Livonia, Mi.
Wish I'd read this a few days back, before I started a brake job the old way. Let me appologize for any social gaffs in advance. I'm new to this site. Questions: Is the volume, of fluid in a caliper being pushed back into the brake line, enough to get back to anything? If it is, what should be done to correct the damage?
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 123
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From: Central Jersey
Usually, front disc brakes will not cause a low pedal. It may be a rear brake issue. My wife'sEscape hads a soft pedal, from the factory. As the vehicle got older, the pedal got softer. Re adjusting the rears helped, but I still don't like the pedal compared to my Ranger. And BTW, I do brakes the same way with a clamp, but I don't have ABS, however I use a cheap turkey baster to remove any excess fluid from the MC.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: St. Peter
Also at the shop I work at the only special too our mechanics use to bleed brakes involves a cap that goes onto your brake master cylinder and pushes fluid through the lines, and you can also suck at the same time. Before we had that it used to be the old fashion way.