I WOULD NOT say the specs do overlap....,
What I WOULD say is that Amsoil OUTPERFORMS both of those oils.


I did want to update my words on this thread here because someone brought it to my attention that I do not run amsoil in the crankcase on motors that are not racing motors.....
not in the motor, 11 quarts of amsoil every oil change.... I can't afford that! if it was a race truck I'd definitely run it in the motor, but w/ how many miles you can get out of an idi running mobil delvac 15/40 why bother, I dont think amsoil could keep most gaskets from rotting though anyway, 20 years later you gotta expect the original head gasket to go sometime soon. I dont think any fluid can keep oil seals like rear mains from eventually leaking either but I guess it's possible, maybe running it in the motor could prolong seals......
yea I dont think you'd save money using it in the crankcase
let's calculate it.... every oil change would be about $50 more, 300,000 miles that's like 100 oil changes, that's $5,000 more in oil over that many miles using amsoil, but less than $2000 to replace the parts that are out of spec after running regular diesel oil that same amount of mileage. Well one thing is at 300,000 the amsoil motor is still gonna run brand new just like a rebuild but I might rather take the rebuild because I just dont have $75 to change my crankcase oil every time.

 

If the specs don't overlap, then there is NO WAY Amsoil ATF can meet the specifications of Mercon V and Mercon SP. For instance, the cSt@100C is 6.8 on the Amsoil AFT, the Mercon spec is >6.8, and 5.5-6.0 on the Mercon SP.

So, Amsoil is lieing on the ATF, like they do on the API rating on their engine oils!!

 

I hate amsoil for their cult style marketing. I refuse to use it because of the actions of thoose who use it...
This backs up that logic. You can market the hell out of a bad product, and it will sell... but does that make it a good product?

I use synthetic ATF every 50k. Around $50 for my toronado, conventional woulda been around $25 (using the same filter)
I got mobile one, it was on sale for $5 a quart at O'rileys a few weeks ago. Usually like 5.69 or something...

use a synthetic, other then amsoil, and you'll be good...
~Nate

 

Using a good quality oil like Chevron Dexron III that gets changed regularly (30k) is more valuable in my mind than going for a high priced synthetic and going for long runs without changing it.

Soft shifting wears all your clutches and all the wear material ends up in the oil. The felt filters used can only do so much to remove contaminates. You are a lot better off changing the oil more often to protect your tranny and give it more longevity. Don't use non felt filters, the extra money will be well spent.

Better cooling is best done in my mind with a large auxillary cooler and a high capacity oil pan. Synthetic oil will help but is it worth the cost if you are still going to change oil ever 30k.

Just some things to think about.......


Seb....

 

So basically you're saying that the Amsoil flows equally compared to Mercon V but flows a little bit better than Mercon SP. Come on Bob, bring some education to the table.
What are you trying to say really?... if a product is better than spec requirement that it doesn't meet the spec? Use your head Bob. I for one would rather use a product that EXCEEDS a called for spec. Maybe no one explained to you the differences between meeting and exceeding.
Oil isn't really all that complicated like you're making it out to be, but one thing is you can be under spec, meet a spec, or exceed a spec. It's not like an advanced piece of technology there really isn't much sophistication behind the specs.
In any event though, you've spent a lot more time downgrading amsoil rather than using it first hand.
I'd love to know why you really hate Amsoil so much but it obviously isn't very partial to how good their ATF is. If you dont have anything educational to ad to the Best ATF thread then dont ad it at all, all you're doing is just trash talking a great product that's been race proven for a long time now. And the truth is, I dont think you will find one specification that another oil says theirs is rated at that will acctually exceed Amsoil's specs, but hey search far and wide because when you find a better ATF just let me know and I'll start using it.

 

Obviously, you don't know how a automatic transmission operates!!!! There is a MIN (5.5) and a MAX(6.0) to the cSt on Mercon SP for a reason!!! And the Amsoil cSt is 6.8!!! So, this is a test:

The Amsoil cSt of 6.8 (@100C) -

a) Meets the Mercon SP cSt spec
b) Is below the Mercon SP cSt spec
c) I above the Mercon SP cSt spec

And your answer is?

A clue for you.....your oil dipstick has a MAX and a MIN, is it ok to run your oil above the MAX???? With the Amsoil mentality, you can fill your crankcase above the MAX level, which EXCEEDs the oil level requirement, so this is just fine!!!!

In your way of thinking (or you have read on Amsoil's website) a value of 6.8 for the cSt value EXCEEDS the Mercon Sp cSt spec........be very careful on how Amsoil words things!!!!! Like I have posted, they even have "API CJ4"
on the bottle labels of DEO, trying to make people that don't know any better believe that it is API CJ4 certified, and it doesn't have any API certification AT ALL!!!

Again, sorry you have been so brainwashed by Scamsoil!!

 

Do you actually believe everything Sc..Amsoil says????

 

Well I decided to write this post not in the light of educating Bob, but to educate the readers of these posts through my discussions w/ Bob regarding Amsoil. Dont get the wrong impression Bob I dont think you're a bad guy, you have your opinions, I have mine. But I do feel if you took the time you've spent bashing Amsoil and used it in a more positive way you may have even been able to develop your own line of lubricants that could outperform Amsoil.... I'm picturing something along the lines of that motor oil commercial in the early 90's where a guy was holding 2 frying pans both w/ motor oil and one burned before the other at the same temp. That would be fun right Bob? After this post I am done w/ the subject.

First off, I've never been to the Amsoil website, well maybe once like 10 years ago, but I do know a lot about lubricants in general and what makes Amsoil a great one. I've used their atf and gear lubes first hand, snowmobiles, outboards, cars, trucks, racing and/or daily driving. I keep the lubes clean, dont burn them up(they're incredibly hard to burn up), and I've never seen them fail.
The cSt specs that Bob has been crying about w/ the amsoil and other oils being different are not very important factors when it comes to the slight differences between them. Basically the amsoil flows as good as one, but then flows better than the other. Is proper cSt important for a transmission to operate properly? Yes... the lubes have to meet a few different characteristics, but see that's why you dont put things like 'gear oil' in an auto tranny that calls for 'ATF'(and it's 101 names), for the most part your protection would be great if you only had one gear, but other than that the chances are it would not shift and operate properly because the fluid would not be able to move fast enough to actuate the different moving and interchanging components inside. For the most part, the Amsoil apparently flows better than the other oils, it matches some cSt specs of other oils and is slightly higher or lower than those of ATF's with different names and 'certification' criteria. This does not however mean you shouldn't use it... it's a universal ATF, it's designed so that you dont need 100 fluids with slightly different characteristics to chose from. With cSt for example again, I personaly wouldn't go and use a fluid that had a lower cSt in something that called for a fluid of a higher cSt unless it was just a great lube overall. I would however use a fluid of slightly higher cSt in a tranny that called for a fluid of slightly lower cSt as long as it had equal or better overall characteristics.
So why doesn't Amsoil have stamps and certifications all over it? Well first off I guess because the people that use it know better, they dont care if it's 'certified' they just want the highest quality lube they can get and having the bottle that says Amsoil is enough proof of that to them. It's also probably an expensive process to certify through API or whatever. More important, like you can't expect it to be certified as dextron III or mercon X, it's not! There's nothing to be scared about, it's just not made by these gigantic corporations that control the industry and mass produce everything and have partnerships w/ the car manufacturers. However it is a much higher grade of synthetic lubricant. If it was the other way around you couldn't say mercon V(or whatever they make you buy now) matches Amsoil's specs. I guess what's most important is, the differences between all the ATF's out there and what these vehicles are calling for aren't very critical, the main reason they call for the newest mass produced ATF's is so that you dont go and do something stupid like put a bottle of original dextron in one of the more sophisticated transmissions that come off the line today. And Amsoil can't certify that it's 2 different fluids(it's only 1 fluid), especially when they start seperating fluid certification names by .5 cSt.
Here's a motor oil analogy to try to explain easier why you shouldn't be scared about using it... My Subaru WRX calls for 5w-20 or something really light like that... Now who the hell is gonna run that in a motor? well I guess the idiot that doesn't know any better... take your car to a GOOD local mechanic or even a regular oil change shop and chances are they dont have any 5w20 in a tank waiting for the next customer that needs 5w20(dont quote me on this completely though I dont tour around having shops change my oil, I wouldn't let someone I dont know touch anything on any vehicle I own). It calls for 5w20 but can you run 10w30? absolutely, it's a little heavier and would give someone of my driving style at least some better protection on the motor and I think any good mechanic would aggree. Can you run 75w90 it's oil too? now that's a huge difference of oil characteristics compared to the other oils and chances are even if it's the slickest 75w90 in the world it's not gonna flow through the oil pump good enough.
Bob what do you do when you need fluids for your model T? do you try to scrounge up oil that met the specs for the car back in 1920? Fluids have come a long way since then, sometimes you are even forced to use better fluids than what was originally called for but I'm sure you've found that out by now but just not w/ the amsoil. I have 2 stroke outboard motors from the 1940's that call for mineral oil to be mixed w/ the gasoline at like 12:1, MINERAL OIL!! 12:1!! It says it right on the manufacturers label crystal clear. Does that mean that's all I can use? I mean yea I'm sure it would work but oil is so much more advanced in this day and age, modern 2 stroke oil at 50:1 works better than the 12:1 mineral oil they were using back in the day. I guess that's similar to saying that the amsoil is a little more advanced as to compared to what these other companies are mass producing cheaper for you. Just for common knowledge did anyone ever tear apart a motor that was run in the 70's? There's a little bit or a lot sometimes of some black gunk inside... well how come if you tear apart a motor today there is no more black gunk you used to love? rebuild that same 70's motor today and tear it apart again in a few years and you'll find out it has to do w/ the quality of the oil being produced today which is much better than back then in the 70's to early 80's. If you were to use oils that were called for at the required specs set by the manufacturer from back then because that's what the manufacturer said to use, now that would just be silly, yes Bob I said silly. And how bout how the oil of today you can drive on for 5-10K when back in the day you could only drive on it for 3K? Anyone notice that these quick lube places still want you back in 3K but the car manufacturers are even giving you till 6K sometimes 10K in your manuals??? Amsoil motor oil I guess you can drive 15K. What does that say?
Many people might not agree w/ me, but from what I've seen these car companies that set the standards for your vehicles really dont care much about your vehicles, they care about selling it to you, they care about fixing it after your warranty is up, they care about selling you parts for it, why would they want you to use a better fluid in it then what they said should go in it? With motor oil they dont have much of a choice because of what's available. They more or less partner w/ the oil companies though once they list the oil company's 'specific' 'certified' oil that's supposed to go into it like with ATF. We're lucky they dont do this w/ motor oil. For all you know the fluid that's called for to use makes your parts wear evenly enough to be finished right at the end of your warranty.
So anyways, the slight differences between the oils are nothing you should worry about, be scared about, or cry about and say it's not good. Amsoils are made to stay really cool and protect metal parts exceptionally well. The ATF is made to help operate an auto tranny really well that's why they make it. I beat the crap out of a majority of what I drive and the amsoil holds up everytime. Somtimes fluids meet standards, and other times they outperform them. I'll leave you with one last analogy but I cant say it's the greatest but some might find it favorable.... the finest cuban cigars dont have certification labels wrapped around them, the finest bottles of tequilla dont have FDA labels on them.

Oh yea.... OEM is for suckers.