allrighty then,

I want to collect some data on builds, Static Compression (SCR), Dynamic Compression (DCR), and octane you can use. Silent theory. But wanting to put some muscle into octane, dcr and the different 400 builds.

What I need is as follows:

1. the type of heads used
2. pistons
3. whether the block or heads were milled/shaved.
4. Whether the combustion chamber was measured
5. SCR and DCR if you know it...plus the above info for reference on other builds
6. Cam and it's IVC (Intake valve closure in degrees- usually on cam card)

An finally what octane you are able to run on. Problems (Ping) towing in hot weather etc. ((Danlee- I think hot rod mag is full of...well, there goes the silent theory- I like crow...so I'm not concerned.

This will be important over time i think...especially with Tim's new pistons.

thanks, and please take the time to do this...i'll take the time to calc data and present conclusions.

 

I will try to contact all the customers who have purchased our pistons, see if they can participate.

 

thanks tim....

 

For one data point remember the 1971 400 ran 9:1 with open chambers and used regular pump gas. Of course if I remember right regular pump gas back then was about 89-90 (R+M)/2 octane, equivalent to our premium nowadays. Some historical research on gas grades may be in order. Bubba's site may list the cam info.

 

right, it's hard to make comparisons based on the old fuel.

 

he're my data. original 400 in '82 E350 van (~6500lbs curb weight).

1. the type of heads used

original factory stock 400 2v heads. polished chambers, removed air bumps & polished exhaust ports. (didn't think to have them flow-tested)

2. pistons

+.030" badger flat-tops. (4cc valve reliefs ?)

3. whether the block or heads were milled/shaved.

just to clean up. pistons measured ~.070 down from the deck.
standard (.040") head gaskets.

4. Whether the combustion chamber was measured

80cc after polishing.

5. SCR and DCR if you know it...plus the above info for reference on other builds

calculated scr ~8.8, dcr ~6.9

6. Cam and it's IVC (Intake valve closure in degrees- usually on cam card)

Melling MTF-2 cam (similar to edelbrock 2172)
adv dur 282/292, .050 dur 204/214
lift .484/.510 (w/ stock roker ratio of 1.73)
112' LSA, 107' ICL.

IVC @ 0.50", 29' ABDC. edyno calculates absolute IVC at 68' ABDC, but danlee has indicated there's something weird about this cam (ramp rates?) making it hard to model accurately...

7. what octane you are able to run on. Problems (Ping) towing in hot weather etc

bone-stock Motorcraft 2150 2-bbl carb (1.08", guessing ~300cfm). Edelbrock 3771 EGR manifold. straight-up timing chain. static timing @ 6' BTDC (per under-hood emissions sticker). stock vacuum & mechanical advance mechanisms. Functional EGR & AIR pump. small-tube headers (1-1/2" primaries) into 2-1/2" collectors back to 3" single exhaust.

had slight ping under load. Added a delay valve to the vacuum advance and it went away. probably not the 'correct' way to fix that, but it never pings now on 87 octane, and i've completely overloaded the beast and run @ 5k ft altitude in 100' heat with no problems. edyno confirms that 87 octane should be safe...

70mph @ 3000rpm with 3.73 gears. Rarely run over 4000rpm. Considering switching to CompCams 255DEH for more low-end torque, assuming this research confirms I can still run 87 octane at least most of the time... :-)

 

1 Stock open chambers, ported and polished
2 +.030 Badgers
3 Block not touched, heads shaved .006? to clean up
4 Chambers 82cc after relieving valves, my bad
5 SCR 8.7 DCR 7.7
6 Crane Powermax 272 ivc 35 abdc
Have to use 89 octane. On 87 if you are at a cruise or light acceleration it pings.
Using an Edelbrock intake and carb. It likes to drink. I think mostly because I should have the new pistons with closed chambers.

 

we're getting the pic on the badgers w/o quench- need tim's pistons and those that used cleveland pistons.

 

I used to run Ohio flattops (similar to Badgers) with a Crane H278-2 cam, and 351C-4V closed chamber heads. the Static CR was 10.3:1 and the DCR was 7.76:1, due to the 72 degree ABDC intake valve closing angle. It ran fine on 91 Octane, until it got warm in traffic. I had some cooling problems at that time.

I think that in edyno the 170 degree setting is more in line with my experience, than the 180 degree setting.

 

danlee..that's a pretty aggressive cam- how did it run? how do you think it would have handled the 92 if you had the pistons to match the head?

 

That was a good cam, I have a 2000 RPM stall converter. It had great high RPM power, but would still squeal the 50's on dry pavement. My HR cam in my new 434 is similar. It is on 114 degree LSA, but it has an shorter intake duration, earlier IVC for a higher DCR and longer exhaust duration.

 

I'm just now getting the whole ivc thing -a little better anyway. never occured to me that ivc was not absolutely tied in with overall duration... just intake and a longer intake duration may have it opening sooner and still keep an earlier ivc. right.


Also need input from those who are using tim's new pistons- any done yet?

 

IVC depends on Duration, Lobe Center Angle, and Ramp Rate.

 

Danlee,

Is your truck an automatic? I am having my 434 balanced today and my truck has a manual transmission, so I had to go with a flywhell. My flywheel is from Centerforce and is counter balanced so my engine builder has to machine it to make it neutral balanced.

 

So heres mine, well what i know so far as our machinest is a ford whiz and he knows our goals and he has stated us a price (we were going to build it ourselves but time constraints are going to prevent that), and we agree with the price sooooo

anywho:

1. I am using the 4v quench heads, new stainless one piece valves(stock size), roller rockers, will probably use port stuffers is i can find a deal, i have also found exhaust port plates for 250 bucks and i might go that route as well, new guides springs to match cam, etc.

2. pistons, well i think that they are tim's pistons from kb, but i'm not sure as tim said he talked to the guy and he was told that they were the old etrle style pistons, but i do know that they are flat top zero deck pistons. I am aiming for at least a 11.0:1 static cr, after getting the pistons we regretted not going with a set of cleveland domed pistons and sleeving the rods for more cr.

3. We're using an early 70's block 30 over, it will be decked to up the compression, it will then be cleaned and arp studs are being used on the bottom end.

4. Not yet, but it will probably be stock cc's for the early 4v quench head.

5. Not yet as we are still waiting on the block and parts to be able to balance the rotating assembly.

6. The cam that i have to date is a comp cams 275deh, but as mentioned above our machinest might go roller and i would like to, but i will leave it to him (we trust him a lot as he's built us motors before and not even a fart out of them to complain abut them, that and the fact the guy builds 1500+hp monster bbf's that have above excellant track records is saying something), off the top of my head i believe the specs are .514@270*int and .541@280*exh, thats all i can remember.

Also this motor will be fully balanced, i am running a b351 ford motorsport intake (ported to fit a cleveland) with intake spacers, and is intented for use in a competition mud truck which is currently runnin a 4sp, np205 gear tcase, and 35x16"boggers. A good performance racing clutch will be used and as far as octane, well race fuel only (probably 110 as there's a big jump in our arear from pump to race)