Finally had time to put it all back together until this weekend. I think I did everything right (although it was pretty tricky getting the heads and gaskets all in the right place, I can see how studs would make things a lot easier). When I filled it with water I had big leaks between both heads and the block. I even noticed water coming through one of the bolt holes. I used that copper gasket spray on both sides of the gaskets and locktight on the bolt threads. And I torqued it down to the shop manual specs in the right pattern. Felt real good and a great sense of accomplishment until the final step.

The only thing I can think of is (and if it is this maybe this belongs in the old thread "stupidest things I've done to my truck") that maybe I switched the gaskets. I forgot that they were marked side specific and didn't pay attention to that. If I did put them on upside down would that affect the seal? If not what else could it be? Was the block not clean enough (what kind of solvent is recommended for cleaning engine parts)?

I am now making plans for what I think is next weekend. Can I get the heads resurfaced again or do I need to buy new ones? How many times are they typically good for? If I have to buy new ones, what should I get? Should I make changes to aluminum, stay w/ cast (pros/cons)...?

Thanks,
Kevin

 

8BA engine? Stock heads? Composition gaskets - Felpro? Torqued in 3 steps?

Only time I've had a leak was when I put one on upside down. The water jacket holes don't line up properly. So the directions stamped/printed on the gasket are important. You might check for warpage on the block and heads with a carpenter's 2' framing square and a feeler gauge. Check across the length, width and diagonally.

Don't remember off-hand what max is, but its something like .006" before you should have the surfaces trued. You can usually take .010" off the surface without hurting anything - IF they haven't been surfaced before. Just take the bare minimum off req'd to true them. You may have to clay the combustion chamber over the piston to make sure you retain enough piston clearance.

Felpro composition gaskets do a fine job of sealing under most conditions.

If the block was down to bare metal, it was clean enough. I use a good quality putty knife as a gasket scraper.

I wouldn't use loc-tite on the bolts. Permatex' Teflon Thread Sealant in white or copper would be a better choice - it stays pliable and bulky. Otherwise, it sounds like you did things in the right order. Good luck with it and let us know what you find.

 

You're going to have to pull the heads in any case; it does sound like you've got them switched. The water passages at the rear are the critical differences between left/right.

What brand gaskets did you use?

I would not use the copper spray on FelPro Blue compostion gaskets. The "blue" is a teflon-like coating that allows sliding between the head and block, and the copper may not let it work. The copper spray is appropriate if you use copper shim gaskets, which isn't usually correct for an 8BA.

 

Wouldn't hurt to lay the gaskets on the block to make sure all holes line up. I helped a fellow club member put the engine back in his car. He was putting water in, when it started pouring out. Ended up that he had received one correct 8BA style gasket, and one 59A style gasket from the parts house, in the same package!

 

Thanks,

Yes it is 8BA. The gaskets are from C&G in Escondido and I think the brand name is BEST gasket. The guy that machined the heads said to use the copper stuff to help it seal better with the metal. Everywhere else I look or talk to says not to use any gasket maker on the heads, but he said this wasn't a gaket maker. Where can I get the Felpro gaskets?

As far as torque, after reading the shop manual it looked like it was saying just do one at a time, so I didn't do it in three steps. Seemed a little strange not to at least finger tighten them all, but just trying to follow directions. Are the 3 steps to specific torques or just trying to ease it on flat?

Not sure if I have enough room on the heads to machine so I'll have to try and see what the machinist says. If I do need to replace them do you have any suggestions for what to get and where?

As you can see, I'm mechanically inclined, just ignorant. Never even had a shop class, just learned on my vw's way back in high school by necessity.Now I am learning as I go on the flatty.

Thanks for the input,
Kevin

 

I think the Best gaskets have a good reputation too, if I'm not mistaken Red's Headers sells them exclusively. Are they copper-faced? The spray only works on copper gaskets.

NAPA sells Victor Reinz gaskets but FelPro actually makes the head gaskets for their sets (apparently not enough demand to justify the tooling for VR to make their own). You never go wrong with FelPro IMO.

As I recall I did torque-down in steps at about 25 - 50 - 65 ft-lbs. Always work "inside-out", follow the factory torque pattern.

 

All but two (I think) head bolts screww into the water jacket and it is necessary to use a thread sealer on the bolt threads. if the surfaces were clean and true them I will have to agree with what was stated above and say that you may have switched the gaskets.

 

I agree too that the gaskets must be swapped for water to come out that fast. On the bolt heads, Permatex Aviation Form a Gasket is good stuff too, it never hardens and seals the bolt threads up completely. I used that and have never had a leak. You mentioned "the guy that machined the heads"....so you have already had them machined before this assembly? If so, you shouldn't need it done again, just use a good gasket scraper and maybe one of those 3M pads on a drill to get all the gasket stuff off the heads before you put the new gaskets back on. If you haven't had them machined, it's hard to tell if you have enough meat left on them to machine again. You can get new old stock heads from a few places still, Carpenters and Joblot, and I think last prices I saw on them were pretty reasonable for under $100 a pair. If you want aluminum, buy new and you're probably gonna pay around $400 for them, but DON'T buy a used set on Ebay hoping to machine them and re-use them. There is no way of knowing before you buy if they've been machined to their limit already and you risk wasting your money on worn out heads. With new aluminum heads you can pick your compression ratio, with stock ones, I think the Ford car heads have a slightly higher compression ratio than the truck heads. I don't know if the ones Carpenters or Joblet sells are car or truck though.

 

Kevin, you're getting great advice here with all the input. I buy my gaskets from NAPA just to support the local guys as much as possible. They sell FelPro. I'm not sure what the 'blue' ones are that Ross mentioned. The ones I get are black. I used to shoot them with CopperCoat just before I put them on - still tacky when bolted on. But lately I've just grabbed any aluminum paint bomb I happen to have in hand. I believe this is one area that just isn't too critical. One reason for painting them is so the head/gasket/block can move - reduced friction - as they settle in. It is more important with aluminum heads than stock. Another reason is it makes them easier to remove when you have to pull a head.

Don't forget to re-torque a couple of times after you get it running.

If I had to look for a pair of new heads I'd hunt for EAB heads. Cheaper than aftermarket and highest compression stock heads. That's what I run on my truck now.

Don't worry about what you don't know. I skipped metal shop in HS also. I used to work with wood, and did my own auto repairs as necessary because I couldn't afford to take it to the shop. Now it's become something I enjoy - most of the time. 8 years ago I bought the 48 as a project truck, determined to make it a daily driver which I have done for the past 6 years. You learn a lot on-the-job when you do it that way. Manuals are a necessity, but so is talking to experts. MSN group 1932-53 flathead forum has some of the best flathead guys you'll find anywhere. I'm still learning.
Tim

 

Guys, thanks for all of the advice. I have a little more fire under my feet now, I just wrecked my other truck on the way home tonight. Not too bad but not driveable for now. I need to get the paddywagon running for sure. I'm going to try to get the heads off in the next couple of days so I can see what I have before the weekend, and then head over to NAPA. Is it important to take them off in reverse pattern (in steps) so they don't warp?

Tim, I'm a wood guy too - general contractor. In high school I never took auto but had to work on my cars because I couldn't afford to send them to the mechanic. My first car was a vw bug. I rolled it one day screwing around like high schoolers do (no wonder boys have high insurance rates). Since I couldn't afford to replace it, we cut the top off and put in a roll cage. Pretty fun.

Thanks again to all.
Kevin

 

That's too bad about your other truck, hope you weren't hurt?

 

It wasn't really that bad. Just in traffic, started moving and looked the other way. The truck in front of me stopped and by the time I saw it I couldn't stop fast enough. I turned to try to avoid him but my truck ('53 Chevy which I was trying to sell to replace with the paddywagon as my daily driver) is lowered. So I dented his bumper but he creased my left fender, which rubs the tire, makes my door not work, the hood not work, fan rubs the radiator....just enough to make for a bad day, but nobody was hurt.

 

I took everything apart yesterday and realized that the gaskets were in correctly. I don't understand why they were leaking around the edges. I didn't use a thread sealer (just locktite), but if that was the only problem it would have been leaking from the bolt holes, not the perimeter right? As far as everything lining up, all of the holes are in the right places, although some of the ones in the gaskets are smaller than the ones on the heads, is that normal?

The only other thing I can think of is that I didn't get enough torque on the heads. Since I couldn't find the specific bolts from an auto parts store, I got some grade 8 bolts from an industrial bolt supplier. They measured between 1/16-1/8" longer than the old bolts. Could that have any affect? I can't imagine that the head and bolts were engineered that exact in length, but would that affect the torque at all?

Also, I can't find any Felpro gaskets around here. I have looked around yesterday and today and nobody can get them until Tuesday or later. Several people have the same gaskets that I used before, BEST, and they all swear by them. So I guess that shouldn't be a problem.

Any help is appreciated,
Kevin

 

Well, that's a darn shame. I think your path forward is described in the earlier replies; check for warping, clean the surfaces. Check those bolts for enough threaded length by sticking one thru the head; you shouldn't be close to the unthreaded part of the bolt showing. Check your manual to see whether the bolt threads and holes in the block are supposed to be oiled or dry when torquing (I don't remember).

Yes it is normal for the holes in the gasket to be smaller than the block or head holes. The size of the holes in the gasket at the back of the block is used to control coolant flow.

I doubt the Best gaskets are your problem. NAPA carries the Victor Reinz/FelPro gaskets.

 

I think I may have figured out the problem. I decided to torque a bolt into the block without the head to see how far off the block the bolthead is. It is just strong of 1.75". Then I measured the thickness of the head. It appears to be right under 1.75". Add the thickness of the gasket and they are probably real close. I guess the problem is that my bolt grew slightly and then the head shrunk slightly during the machining. I still have a hard time believing there is not more wiggle room. Should I just go get some shorter bolts and try again?

Kevin