horrible mileage
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth, TX
Johnny, can you tell me what all you have done to your Navigator?
I'm currently getting 13 MPG on my 2000 Navi. I've changed air filter just recently to a Fram Air Hog and will be replacing the fuel filter as soon as it warms up around here. Spark Plugs are next, but I don't know if I should do it myself or take it to the dealer for fear of the COPs breaking. New fluids after that. This beast has just over 100K on it and I have no idea if anything has been done to it before me.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Sam
I'm currently getting 13 MPG on my 2000 Navi. I've changed air filter just recently to a Fram Air Hog and will be replacing the fuel filter as soon as it warms up around here. Spark Plugs are next, but I don't know if I should do it myself or take it to the dealer for fear of the COPs breaking. New fluids after that. This beast has just over 100K on it and I have no idea if anything has been done to it before me.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Sam
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Fla
Slenser, is yours a 2x4 or 4x4? I have a 97 2x4 w/5.4 and get around 18-20 w/450k on her.
First off, synthetic oil would be #1, plugs are about due, I usually do mine around 110k. Though your lack of mileage indicates they may be due now. I use a K&N air filter. You won't break the COPS, but working on them in the cold my feel like your breaking your fingers. The dealer will get ya for around $350 to do the plugs. Plus the only dealer who worked on my truck didn't even put the correct screw back in for the replacement of a single cop. That was the last dealer to touch my truck 8 yrs ago.
Replacing plugs is just a matter of patience, takes me around 2.5-3 hrs to do mine. But then again, I'm in sunny warm FLA.
Make sure when you pull the cop off the plug to blow out the recess before removing the plug so as not to get crud into the threads (possibly crossthreading) or into the cylinder head. All it takes is a quick shot, I put a 3/16 vacuum hose on my air nozzle about 16" long to make it easy to direct the air into the recess.
First off, synthetic oil would be #1, plugs are about due, I usually do mine around 110k. Though your lack of mileage indicates they may be due now. I use a K&N air filter. You won't break the COPS, but working on them in the cold my feel like your breaking your fingers. The dealer will get ya for around $350 to do the plugs. Plus the only dealer who worked on my truck didn't even put the correct screw back in for the replacement of a single cop. That was the last dealer to touch my truck 8 yrs ago.
Replacing plugs is just a matter of patience, takes me around 2.5-3 hrs to do mine. But then again, I'm in sunny warm FLA.
Make sure when you pull the cop off the plug to blow out the recess before removing the plug so as not to get crud into the threads (possibly crossthreading) or into the cylinder head. All it takes is a quick shot, I put a 3/16 vacuum hose on my air nozzle about 16" long to make it easy to direct the air into the recess.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Fla
There tight, but that's where the patience comes in...
...on each plug you will need to disconnect the fuel injector pulse connection and the connection to the cop to give you clearance to get to the retaining screw (8mm). On #4 I use short box/open end wrench, it may take some time but its not that bad. You'll get more dirty from the hoses than anything. On #8 I use a swivel on my 1/4" drive to loosen it and finish removing it with the box/open. The #7 is under a, I think, pressure regulator on the fuel rail. I haven't had to remove the fuel rail, but had to loosen the two bolts to get a bit of movement to get the cop out. The rest are a piece of cake, that's why I personally start with those three to gettem' out of the way.
...on each plug you will need to disconnect the fuel injector pulse connection and the connection to the cop to give you clearance to get to the retaining screw (8mm). On #4 I use short box/open end wrench, it may take some time but its not that bad. You'll get more dirty from the hoses than anything. On #8 I use a swivel on my 1/4" drive to loosen it and finish removing it with the box/open. The #7 is under a, I think, pressure regulator on the fuel rail. I haven't had to remove the fuel rail, but had to loosen the two bolts to get a bit of movement to get the cop out. The rest are a piece of cake, that's why I personally start with those three to gettem' out of the way.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Originally Posted by 98sexpo02gata
what did u do to it? my expo doesnt get but 12
392 miles / 21.2 gallons=18.49 mpg. That's in mixed driving with about 60% highway and 40% in town.
The OEM tunes on these vehicles is pretty bad-they're very rich with very little timing advance(esp the 87 octane tuned 5.4L 16V's),and minimal EGR. There are a few more things,but those are the biggest keys to fuel economy.
JL
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Originally Posted by slenser
Johnny, can you tell me what all you have done to your Navigator?
I'm currently getting 13 MPG on my 2000 Navi. I've changed air filter just recently to a Fram Air Hog and will be replacing the fuel filter as soon as it warms up around here. Spark Plugs are next, but I don't know if I should do it myself or take it to the dealer for fear of the COPs breaking. New fluids after that. This beast has just over 100K on it and I have no idea if anything has been done to it before me.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Sam
I'm currently getting 13 MPG on my 2000 Navi. I've changed air filter just recently to a Fram Air Hog and will be replacing the fuel filter as soon as it warms up around here. Spark Plugs are next, but I don't know if I should do it myself or take it to the dealer for fear of the COPs breaking. New fluids after that. This beast has just over 100K on it and I have no idea if anything has been done to it before me.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Sam
JL
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Elder User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
From: Woodland Hills
Originally Posted by Johnny Langton
The 32V modulars are extremely efficient-the slow burn combustion chamber can handle alot of ignition timg,and also a lean fuel mixture.These things along with more EGR dialed into the tune make for a fuel efficient engine while cruising,and much more power when at WOT. I just filled it up today and checked the mileage again after the wife has been driving it all week.
392 miles / 21.2 gallons=18.49 mpg. That's in mixed driving with about 60% highway and 40% in town.
The OEM tunes on these vehicles is pretty bad-they're very rich with very little timing advance(esp the 87 octane tuned 5.4L 16V's),and minimal EGR. There are a few more things,but those are the biggest keys to fuel economy.
JL
392 miles / 21.2 gallons=18.49 mpg. That's in mixed driving with about 60% highway and 40% in town.
The OEM tunes on these vehicles is pretty bad-they're very rich with very little timing advance(esp the 87 octane tuned 5.4L 16V's),and minimal EGR. There are a few more things,but those are the biggest keys to fuel economy.
JL
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Originally Posted by amm888
do you think similar timing/EGR tweaks would lead to similar results in a 16 valve 5.4?
JL
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Here's a comparison of the OEM Spark tables for a 32V vs a 16V.
The top table is the spark table from my Navigator's 32V,the bottom table is from a 16V.
This is only one of the reasons the 32V engines are more efficient-allowing more ignition timing advance at cruising speeds makes more torque,and keeps the engine from going in to open loop fuel from high load when you have to tip into the throttle for maintaining speed.
For the best economy and power,a competent tuner with the proper tools can make a world of difference.IMO,you can't get better than SCT for software and hardware on Fords,but you must be careful to choose a good tuner than uses SCT software and hardware. there are some hacks out there that couldn't tune a lawnmower,much less your vehicle.
JL
The top table is the spark table from my Navigator's 32V,the bottom table is from a 16V.
This is only one of the reasons the 32V engines are more efficient-allowing more ignition timing advance at cruising speeds makes more torque,and keeps the engine from going in to open loop fuel from high load when you have to tip into the throttle for maintaining speed.
For the best economy and power,a competent tuner with the proper tools can make a world of difference.IMO,you can't get better than SCT for software and hardware on Fords,but you must be careful to choose a good tuner than uses SCT software and hardware. there are some hacks out there that couldn't tune a lawnmower,much less your vehicle.
JL
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 12
From: SE Texas
Originally Posted by amm888
thanks for the tables JL, unfortunately we're in completely different leagues, mechanically, and I really don't get what they're showing. looks like i'll have to do some research.
al
al
The left hand column up and down is the percent load (.89=89%,.79=79%,etc,etc).
The column across the top is engine RPM,and the values in the table are degree of ignition timing advanced or retarded from TDC.
So,for example...my Navigator's spark value for cruising speed is found by taking the rpm(2000 for me at approx 70mph),and load it sees(approx 40% load at cruising on flat land),and finding the corresponding value in the table. In that particular case,the EEC is going to command 39 degrees of ignition timing advance before any other corrections are does to that value.
A 2V at the same load and RPM is only going to get 30 degrees of advance.
Now,this is only part of the calculation,but it's where it all starts. This is also why it's so important not to screw around with the MAF. The MAF is one of the main pieces of the load calculation puzzle,and if it's wrong,then the EEC simply uses the incorrect spark value for the vehicle at that time. That can mean a weak engine from lack of spark advance,or a knocking/pinging one from too much advance.
JL
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth, TX
OK, after some searching I found out what SCT stands for... Superchips Custum Tuning.
Now, what model of SCT do you have? Is it custom tuned for your truck? Is it a canned program in the tuner that I would have available if I purchased the same tuner as you?
BTW High_Horse, I have an AWD/4X4 so I know that will diminish my mileage some, but my 2001 Navi was getting 18MPG on trips versus the 13.4 I'm getting now. That's why I'm looking at replacing stuff before buying the tuner. I think the winter mix is killing a lot of the efficiency right now as well. Anyone know on average how much mileage is lost once they change over? I haven't been keeping track.
My goal is 20+MPG
Sam
Now, what model of SCT do you have? Is it custom tuned for your truck? Is it a canned program in the tuner that I would have available if I purchased the same tuner as you?
BTW High_Horse, I have an AWD/4X4 so I know that will diminish my mileage some, but my 2001 Navi was getting 18MPG on trips versus the 13.4 I'm getting now. That's why I'm looking at replacing stuff before buying the tuner. I think the winter mix is killing a lot of the efficiency right now as well. Anyone know on average how much mileage is lost once they change over? I haven't been keeping track.
My goal is 20+MPG
Sam