The Amsoil Anomaly:
#196
01-05-2007, 06:47 PM
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I recently went under the valve cover to check the tourque of the rocker arms as sugested in this thread https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...pedastals.html.
While in the area i checked the turbine shaft to see if it felt loose, ie end play, and side play and it was fine, no rubbing of the housing.
While in the area i checked the turbine shaft to see if it felt loose, ie end play, and side play and it was fine, no rubbing of the housing.
#197
01-05-2007, 07:11 PM
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also, when i removed the turbo that failed, i dissambled it to see if i could find the cause of the failure, and what i found was the thrust washer was worn almost to nothing. This part fails because of overboost.
I looked at the turbine shaft for blueing, gougeing, scoring, or burnt oil on it and didn't find any. So the failure was not due to lack of lubrication.
I looked at the turbine shaft for blueing, gougeing, scoring, or burnt oil on it and didn't find any. So the failure was not due to lack of lubrication.
#198
01-05-2007, 07:20 PM
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Blackstone test report using amsoil
Bloomy63, thanks for sharing your oil analysis report with us. You don't know how long we've been waiting for someone to put their money where their mouth is. It looks real good. Looking forward to seeing your next analysis.
Is 3 quarts makeup oil normal for an average 7.3 diesel? It doesn't really sound out of line. Just curious if it's a well established consumption rate for your vehicle.
Is 3 quarts makeup oil normal for an average 7.3 diesel? It doesn't really sound out of line. Just curious if it's a well established consumption rate for your vehicle.
#199
01-05-2007, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by horsepuller
Is 3 quarts makeup oil normal for an average 7.3 diesel? It doesn't really sound out of line. Just curious if it's a well established consumption rate for your vehicle.
Last edited by bloomy63; 01-05-2007 at 07:29 PM.
#200
01-05-2007, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by firesoutmatt
What part isn't clear enough for you Bob ????
AMSOIL ATF has very recently been reformulated to meet the requirements of MERCON SP. Please use batch # 10189 or higher
AMSOIL ATF has very recently been reformulated to meet the requirements of MERCON SP. Please use batch # 10189 or higher
Matt, looks like Amsoil lied to you....here are the specifications for their ATF that they claim is for Mercon, Mercon V, and Mercon SP applications, from their website. As you
can see they were just revised (12/06).
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Revised as of 12/06
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
6.8 Mercon SP specification 5.5 - 6.0
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
33.5
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
168
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (ASTM D-5800) 10.2
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92) 222 (432)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)
-52 (-61)
Four Ball Wear Test, Scar in mm; 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hr (ASTM D-4172B) 0.40
Brookfield Viscosity (cP) -20°C = 1298
Brookfield Viscosity (cP) -40°C = 9326
Last edited by Bob Ayers; 01-05-2007 at 08:31 PM.
#201
01-05-2007, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lwong
All you "not-API-certified" guys,
How does not being API certified translate into being an inferior product? Does this apply to ALL non-API certified oils or only to Amsoil? Were you all aware that REDLINE oil is not API certified? Nobody seems to bash REDLINE about it, although their products enjoy a good reputation. They also practice the "recommended for API XXXXX service" in their product and fact sheets, yet nobody calls it deceitful. I guess it's because they are not MLM marketed, which doesn't seem to affect how an oil performs.
Not being API certified doesn't mean that the product doesn't perform. It COULD mean that in some instances it'll perform BETTER than an API certified oil. Has anyone here actually used Amsoil products in their personal cars? Has anyone here suffered a catastrophic failure due solely to the use of Amsoil? Has anyone here been denied a warranty claim because of the use of Amsoil? I am concerned only about how a product performs, not what certifications it carries. They've been selling product for 35 years. One would think that if their product were so inferior, the performance evidence would be huge by now.
How does not being API certified translate into being an inferior product? Does this apply to ALL non-API certified oils or only to Amsoil? Were you all aware that REDLINE oil is not API certified? Nobody seems to bash REDLINE about it, although their products enjoy a good reputation. They also practice the "recommended for API XXXXX service" in their product and fact sheets, yet nobody calls it deceitful. I guess it's because they are not MLM marketed, which doesn't seem to affect how an oil performs.
Not being API certified doesn't mean that the product doesn't perform. It COULD mean that in some instances it'll perform BETTER than an API certified oil. Has anyone here actually used Amsoil products in their personal cars? Has anyone here suffered a catastrophic failure due solely to the use of Amsoil? Has anyone here been denied a warranty claim because of the use of Amsoil? I am concerned only about how a product performs, not what certifications it carries. They've been selling product for 35 years. One would think that if their product were so inferior, the performance evidence would be huge by now.
#202
01-05-2007, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by firesoutmatt
This is the question I asked
I have a 2005 F-250 Superduty 6.0 with auto trans.
My manual says to use Mercron SP only fluid.
Which Amsoil Fluid can I use ?
You saw the answer they gave so How can it be more point blank than that??
I have a 2005 F-250 Superduty 6.0 with auto trans.
My manual says to use Mercron SP only fluid.
Which Amsoil Fluid can I use ?
You saw the answer they gave so How can it be more point blank than that??
Personally, I think you should run thier tranny fluid, along with ever other non certified product they produce in your $40,000 truck and then in a year or two, or maybe even less report back to us on how everything worked out for you. If everyting goes like all of the Amsoil lovers think it will, I'll never quote the API or bring it up again, and will start using all of Amsoils products and start using their lab to test my oil samples. Sound Fair?
#203
01-05-2007, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by horsepuller
Bloomy63, thanks for sharing your oil analysis report with us. You don't know how long we've been waiting for someone to put their money where their mouth is. It looks real good. Looking forward to seeing your next analysis.
Is 3 quarts makeup oil normal for an average 7.3 diesel? It doesn't really sound out of line. Just curious if it's a well established consumption rate for your vehicle.
Is 3 quarts makeup oil normal for an average 7.3 diesel? It doesn't really sound out of line. Just curious if it's a well established consumption rate for your vehicle.
#204
01-05-2007, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by mrxlh
Herein lies the problem, you are exactly right Matt, except Amsoil is the one playing he said, she said. Without (and here is the key word) "Accredited Testing" one that is universally excepted, you know like the API for instance, you are "just taking their word for it".
Personally, I think you should run thier tranny fluid, along with ever other non certified product they produce in your $40,000 truck and then in a year or two, or maybe even less report back to us on how everything worked out for you. If everyting goes like all of the Amsoil lovers think it will, I'll never quote the API or bring it up again, and will start using all of Amsoils products and start using their lab to test my oil samples. Sound Fair?
Personally, I think you should run thier tranny fluid, along with ever other non certified product they produce in your $40,000 truck and then in a year or two, or maybe even less report back to us on how everything worked out for you. If everyting goes like all of the Amsoil lovers think it will, I'll never quote the API or bring it up again, and will start using all of Amsoils products and start using their lab to test my oil samples. Sound Fair?
"If I knew for 100% that Amsoil would back me if I used their fluid and my tranny was shot because of it I would use their fluid but I don't get that warm and fuzzy feeling about their product."
#205
01-05-2007, 08:53 PM
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To be fair, the only problem with this thread so far is inconsistancy. Everyone is swaying the discussion to their specific topic or point. From tranny fluid to gas engine oil to several different diesel grades of oil. So far it has been the most civil oil in general discussion I have ever seen or participated in on the FTE. Thanks to all who have contributed so far.
#206
01-05-2007, 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by mrxlh
To be fair, the only problem with this thread so far is inconsistancy. Everyone is swaying the discussion to their specific topic or point. From tranny fluid to gas engine oil to several different diesel grades of oil. So far it has been the most civil oil in general discussion I have ever seen or participated in on the FTE. Thanks to all who have contributed so far.
#207
01-05-2007, 09:09 PM
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Yeah, it took me a few pages of reading to figure that out, as I was responding in both threads. However the one thing that remains consistant, is maketing and testing. I really could care less that they are a pyramid scam company, but the false claims and non tested/accredated products. If Amsoil was priced more competatively (should be less than any of the other major syn due that they don't pay for testing and or licenses) and like Keith said, a no B.S. real gaurentee, they might be worth a look.
#208
01-05-2007, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Ayers
Ok, one more time:
Ford officials declined to discuss the SP specification, but market sources said it was developed for high-torque five-speed transmissions built by German manufacturer ZF and used by Ford in some light trucks. The biggest differences between SP and the two older Mercon specs are the viscosity requirements. SP requires a kinematic viscosity of 5.5 to 6 square millimeters per second at 100 degrees C, compared to a minimum of 6.8 for both Mercon and Mercon V. SP also has more stringent requirements for cold-temperature Brookfield viscosity.
To summarize for you:
The kinematic viscosity for Mercon SP is 5.5 to 6 square millimeters / sec.
The kinematic viscosity for Mercon and Mercon V is > 6.8 square millimeters / sec.
There is no way a single ATF can meet both of these specs, PERIOD!!!!!
Ford officials declined to discuss the SP specification, but market sources said it was developed for high-torque five-speed transmissions built by German manufacturer ZF and used by Ford in some light trucks. The biggest differences between SP and the two older Mercon specs are the viscosity requirements. SP requires a kinematic viscosity of 5.5 to 6 square millimeters per second at 100 degrees C, compared to a minimum of 6.8 for both Mercon and Mercon V. SP also has more stringent requirements for cold-temperature Brookfield viscosity.
To summarize for you:
The kinematic viscosity for Mercon SP is 5.5 to 6 square millimeters / sec.
The kinematic viscosity for Mercon and Mercon V is > 6.8 square millimeters / sec.
There is no way a single ATF can meet both of these specs, PERIOD!!!!!
So Bob what is it ?Ford officials declined to discuss the SP specification!!
Or what you say it is ??
If Ford is the only one that makes this type of oil ( which seems to be something wrong with that)and won't discuss the specs how do we know for sure who is correct??
Ford ?
Amsoil?
Bob ?
Also I never said I use Amsoil Only that I question what your saying as to be true or not.
Amsoil says its ok to use their fluid in place of Mercron SP . Do I believe that ?
I'm not sure thats why I'm here trying to discuss it and filtering thru all your negative remarks . You seem to be aginist them no matter what and Won't change your mind. If someone has used it with great results more power to them but don't degrade them and call them names because they don't agree with you.
#209
01-05-2007, 09:28 PM
I have found that when people invest in a product, they will generally defend their expenditure even when it's proven to be a poor investment. Brand loyalty can lead to blind loyalty no matter the product.
Bloomy, I think we all look forward to your future oil analysis results as proof of actual oil performance. Thanks for having the guts to post that link to your analysis results.
Bloomy, I think we all look forward to your future oil analysis results as proof of actual oil performance. Thanks for having the guts to post that link to your analysis results.
#210
01-05-2007, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kepler4
I have found that when people invest in a product, they will generally defend their expenditure even when it's proven to be a poor investment. Brand loyalty can lead to blind loyalty no matter the product.
And motor oil once I decide which one to be loyal too...