Our local electrical codes seem to require that plug-in outlets be installed with the 3rd (ground-the round one) prong up. All the older ones have it below the two flat-blade prongs of the plug.

Is this a national change, statewide, or strictly local? It seems pretty dumb to me because all appliances produced with a "right-angle plug" (space-saver type) have the ground below the powered prongs. With a receptacle installed UPSIDE-DOWN, the 'space-saver' now has to loop over top of the plug possibly presenting a safety issue.

Can anyone comment/direct me to responsible individuals where I can get some real answers?

 

That's local, NEC does not even go there. You need to find you local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) be it on the city or county level. It's not a law until the local AHJ makes it so, and they say what-is-what in that jurisdiction.

 

As mentioned already, no NEC ruling as of yet. A lot of electricians practice the "ground prong up" for a safety practice. This allows any object that could slide down the wall (like a picture hanging wire ) and lands on a cord plugcap, that has pulled out of the receptacle enough to expose the hot and neutral prongs, to hit the grounding prong first. If the hot and neutral prongs of the plugcap are on the top and pulled downward and exposed, the object will land across them and may short them out, creating sparks that could ignite any combustibles close by, like curtains.

 

I insatalled my outdoor outlets upside down on purpose, because the power cord will not start to fall out as easily.

 

Thanks Greg for the information........I never thought about the posibility of the fire hazard you explained. The wife just got 2 playful cats that are left here alone an Im trying to think of anything like that which could be a hazard...

 

I understand the THEORY behind this dopey idea, but really now, how many times have YOU EVER seen a picture cable (or any other metal object, for that matter) that has fallen precisely down the wall and exactly lodged on the plug prongs?

And wouldn't there be sparks if the cable shorted the ground to one of the other prongs?

And wouldn't those sparks be as likely to start a fire as any other?

And wouldn't the GF protection or circuit breaker prevent any serious damage (other than readily ignitable trash left carelessly around the electrical receptacle by some sloppy da)?

Too many what if's.....

If this is such a GREAT idea, why don't the appliance manufacturers install a plug that works PROPERLY with the IMPROVED design.

Why do the pencil-necked pocket-protector geeks with Coke-bottle bottom glasses always have to fuss with things? Is there nothing else for these people to do?

The world will only become steadily worse if we don't practice a little "gene pool cleansing", if you know what I mean.

 

Dopey idea ? I think not. If just one child in one billion, gets saved from being burned badly or killed because a plugcap behind their bed gets shorted out, then the idea is not so dopey. Especially if it is your child ...

As a hospital electrician years ago, I replaced several receptacles that were burned when the male plucap was shorted out from metal objects being dropped on the exposed prongs. Electrical safety in a hospital is priority ONE, so every receptacle I installed those following six years were done with the ground slot up...

Granted, the presence of metal objects surrounding a patients bed that can slide down the wall is more prominent, than metallic objects on a wall in a persons residence. These shorted plugcap prongs incidences occured so much in hospitals, it has been made a wiring "standard" practice, not rule, by the electrical contractors in the medical treatment facilities to install all receptacles with the ground prong up...


Change all the receptacles in your home to suit yourself Dall, no one is making you wrestle with upside down angled plugcap powercords. Turn them the way you want them, its your home.

 

I read on another board that in certain jurisdictions, ground prong up was required on all outlets with metal plate covers. I guess this would make sense if the cover ever worked loose and fell off.

 

It just looks goofy. I have never had a problem with mine and they are installed with the ground plug down.

 

and then there is the case for a fluid related short......
like when the half full wine glasses get thrown at the wall


it doesn't matter which way the ground plug was installed.

All my picture frames are made of wood or plastic.

 

Check with your AHJ. Some NEC (NFPA 70)modifiers include "dedicated use" and "not readily accessable" outlets. You might have some leeway if it's behind a fridge or something.

I guess I must have been a hellion as a small child; getting in to things that I knew better, being places that I knew I shouldn't be. Fortunately I was blessed with parents who were blessed with common sense. They were pretty effective at riding herd over me-most of the time.

Regarding these stupid rules that defy common sense: Somewhere there is an insurance loss prevention specialist, with study results in hand, looking to cut some losses.

 

Allright, lets forget about the possibility of a metal object EVER falling down across the exposed prongs of a plugcap, or a child EVER touching the tops of these energized blades that are accessible from the top. (which is a living with blinders on, viewpoint )...

Here is another reason for installing the receptacles ground up. Because of the age, or less than quality design of the tension grip of the receptacle's internal blade clips, power cord plugcaps will sometimes pull outward and down from the weight of the cord. Therefore, reducing the plugcaps blade full depth contact and allowing the plugcap to overheat from the heavier electrical loads it may have on it ...

If the plugcap is inserted in to a receptacle with the ground prong up, then as the weight of the heavy cord pulls downward, the blades of the plugcap are pushed forward in to the receptacle, not falling out of it.


P.S. I agree with Dall on the angled plug being coiled upward being a PIA. The NEC and the UL Labs need to set a industry standard, so these upside down power cords will not be a problem. They need to just set a national code standard for the vertical of positioning of wall receptacles and design all power cords accordingly. As new buildings are built and older homes have their electrical systems updated, eventually all will be the same configuration.


And yes, ground up does look goofy. But one must remember, that is the way most of us have seen wall receptacles installed for 35 years. I thought I would never get used to looking at these ugly cars and trucks that now look NOTHING like my 60'/70's vehicles. But , they are getting more inviting to my eye, because I am getting mentally programmed to accept them. They are all that is being built. Someday all wall receptacles will be installed ground contact up, and no one will know the difference. jmo

 

slower button clickin' finger. The above posted twice...sorry, I'll delete it once.

 

I don't recognize this term. Could it be those fake plastic plugs used to fill a wall receptacle to keep kids out? Heh, heh, heh.

If so...ever watch a kid? They have 'em out before you know they're up to mischief, believe me. And they don't have to watch you install them either.

Our "kids" are in their thirties. I don't recall that we ever had anything like that and we never, to my knowledge, had a problem. How could that be with two very inquisitive boys? It's called discipline (oh such a nasty word!) of both the parent to be aware of the child and his whereabouts all the time and of the children who are taught to strictlly obey certain rules of the house. I don't think those cap things were even available back then...maybe just coming out.

To Greg 79 f150: Your intentions are very noble and I would sincerely like to agree with you on every point you make...but it is absolutely impossible to safety-proof every possible hazard to attempt to prevent every death or injury that could occur. If we really tried to do that we would not be able to have knives and forks on our dinner tables...and our civil freedoms would eventually be eroded to the point that we would be better off dead!

I agree every premature death of anyone, child or adult, is a true tragedy. I served on our local rescue squad for two years and averaged more than one call per week (small town). After dealing with the deaths of two kids...a toddler burned to death in a house fire and a teenager killed in his Mom's car (T-boned by an inattentive driver who failed to stop at a STOP sign and where everyone else survived) I learned I didn't have what it takes to continue doing that. I also learned that people do dumb stuff and no amount of effort on our part will keep them from doing so. We may save a life here and lose one there when someone dreams up a new stupid stunt or ignores life's lifesaving safety rules.

It all comes down to discipline...to learn, to do what is known to be right, to take our responsibilities seriously, and to survive. I firmly believe some people are not meant to survive for some reason. And others survive despite themselves.

Did you ever notice that some families endure the tragedy of a house fire multiple times while other families, extended families, never ever have had a fire in their house? I have witnessed that. Why is that?

I used the term dopey and I should not have done that. I will point out that the newer code is only "half-a-loaf"...it only goes so far and, while it makes some folks FEEL GOOD that they did something to "help save lives", we don't actually know that it does...it just might, but do we know? And couldn't some of the mishaps occur despite the fact that the plug receptacles are now turned upside-down? They sure could, I can see that and so did others.

If the pocket-protector pencil-necked geek engineers REALLY wanted to move to a design that would actually help prevent the things Greg refers to, they would design and require an entirely different style of wall receptacle that would truly help prevent these possible mishaps.

I am not a genius myself, but I can see what others have done and recognize merit in a design. While I don't often hold Europeans up as shining examples of anything anymore (I used to, but they have really pi$$ed me off lately with their political garbage), I do regocnize that the European style wall receptacle is a better design. The live openings are recessed the depth of the plug prongs and would serve to prevent the mishaps referred to previously. A North American adaptation of that style wall receptacle would serve far better the purpose than the "upside-down" example. But we crafty Americans are so wise, we go for the "cheap fix".

THAT is why I call the "upside-down" plugs dopey.

Have I made my positition perfectly clear?

We could have done better but someone chose something different.

 

In the electrical trade the devices on the end of cords are either a male plugcap ( sticks in the receptacle) with different NEMA ratings for ampacity and voltages/phases, OR a female connector body ( receives the male plugcap) to make longer extensions cords or the electric appliance/tool/device with male plugcaps plugs in to them....

I try to answer a posters question with a direct answer to the specific question, while not adding all the rectoric of personal opinions. I know not ALL people have metal metal picture frames , as well as not ALL people have wood picture frames. I know not ALL parents watch their children EVERY second, as well as I know there are some parents who never let their child out of their sight. So , to get in to side debates about a "who shot John" here, is a moot point to the topic presented....


The OT question basically asked, "Why were the ground prongs in the "up" position in the wall receptacles in my home"....

I gave a couple of reasons why they are done that way. I know in that dealing with the topic of providing safety mechanisms for human beings, it is like spraying water on a oil oil fire....

It takes a certain percentage of deaths and insurance claims before corrective actions are taken on anything detrimental to the publics safety. Apparently the vertical mounting position of a homes wall receptacles, or the design of them , has not warranted any particular organization /insurance company lobbying for a change in them. Until that happens , we will have to live with the present design of them. ...

Until there is a NEC and/or local AHJ code change stating the required receptacle vertical mounting position, we will all have to live with the personal preference of the receptacle installer, as to whether they wanted to install the receptacle with the grounding prong up or down. EOT for me