Towing in OD
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 245
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From: West Australia
Towing in OD
OK I gotta ask this!
Towing heavey trailers (7500lbs) in overdrive!
I've just bought my first auto trans (4100R?) F 250 7.3psd truck in 30 years of driving!
I'm intending to tow my boat long distances with it!
In the past I've always had Manual gear box diesel 4wd vehicles with overdrive gears! With these I made the mistake of towing in Overdrive gear (5th) and eventually suffered 3 gearbox failures in pretty rapid succession. Eventually my mechanic showed me the gearbox output shafts for OD (5th gear) and how they run on little pin rollers rather than a large ball bearing race like the 1:1 ratio 4th direct drive gear runs on!
These pin rollers were disintegrating pulling uphill in 5th gear OD because the damn diesel engines just have so much low down torque, thay they keep haulin azz uphill and don't show any sign of dieing - necessitation a downshift!
The needle rollers on the 5th overdrive gear output shaft would shatter under the load basically!
Anyway - here I am some years later with a Auto gear box with electronic overdrive gear & about to tow a heavey boat......with the Effie (F truck).
I have very bad memories of gear box failures in the past , to the point I used to have stickers made up for my dashboard that read "don't tow in 5th overdrive - thickhead" to remind me (or anyone else) that direct drive 4th gear was the ONLY one to use when towing!
So...the quintessential question is posed again!
When towing heavey loads long distances - should one disengage the electronic button on the end of the auto gearshift and not use the over drive feature?
On a auto 4100R - what type bearings are used on the OD output shaft? Are they capable of withstanding the torque forces that 7.3 litres of turboed PSD generates - or are they - like the old Bitsamissing - oops Mitsubishi - just small needle roller type bearings that are going to shatter under the load!
Should I make up new stickers for the dash like my old "don't tow in overdrive, thickhead" ones for the new F Truck?
I know I should do some upgrade work to my auto trans cooler which I plan to do soon! (and add a tranny temp gauge)?
Anything else for a Ftruck 4100R auto box thats going to haul a lot of weight often?
I'd sooner do it now and not have issues on the road than after the fact!
While I have the truck in for all the other work (long Range diesel fuel tanks & Vacuum over ride breaks being fitted this week) I could ask them maybe to have a go at some other work if it's needed!
Many thanks in advance!
Towing heavey trailers (7500lbs) in overdrive!
I've just bought my first auto trans (4100R?) F 250 7.3psd truck in 30 years of driving!
I'm intending to tow my boat long distances with it!
In the past I've always had Manual gear box diesel 4wd vehicles with overdrive gears! With these I made the mistake of towing in Overdrive gear (5th) and eventually suffered 3 gearbox failures in pretty rapid succession. Eventually my mechanic showed me the gearbox output shafts for OD (5th gear) and how they run on little pin rollers rather than a large ball bearing race like the 1:1 ratio 4th direct drive gear runs on!
These pin rollers were disintegrating pulling uphill in 5th gear OD because the damn diesel engines just have so much low down torque, thay they keep haulin azz uphill and don't show any sign of dieing - necessitation a downshift!
The needle rollers on the 5th overdrive gear output shaft would shatter under the load basically!
Anyway - here I am some years later with a Auto gear box with electronic overdrive gear & about to tow a heavey boat......with the Effie (F truck).
I have very bad memories of gear box failures in the past , to the point I used to have stickers made up for my dashboard that read "don't tow in 5th overdrive - thickhead" to remind me (or anyone else) that direct drive 4th gear was the ONLY one to use when towing!
So...the quintessential question is posed again!
When towing heavey loads long distances - should one disengage the electronic button on the end of the auto gearshift and not use the over drive feature?
On a auto 4100R - what type bearings are used on the OD output shaft? Are they capable of withstanding the torque forces that 7.3 litres of turboed PSD generates - or are they - like the old Bitsamissing - oops Mitsubishi - just small needle roller type bearings that are going to shatter under the load!
Should I make up new stickers for the dash like my old "don't tow in overdrive, thickhead" ones for the new F Truck?
I know I should do some upgrade work to my auto trans cooler which I plan to do soon! (and add a tranny temp gauge)?
Anything else for a Ftruck 4100R auto box thats going to haul a lot of weight often?
I'd sooner do it now and not have issues on the road than after the fact!
While I have the truck in for all the other work (long Range diesel fuel tanks & Vacuum over ride breaks being fitted this week) I could ask them maybe to have a go at some other work if it's needed!
Many thanks in advance!
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 10
From: Arizona
Flywest,
The 4R100 is not as stout as the new Torqueshift in the newer SD but, you can tow in OD with any auto tranny as long as it is not hunting for gears. When in OD the torque converter is locked up to prevent slipping and reduces trans temps. If your transmission is hunting for gears then downshift out of OD.
Also as with any auto trans, a good temp gauge is a must and possibly an external oil cooler depending on the temps you are towing in. Also service your transmission at least every 30K miles with new fluid and if you are towing alot you may want to consider switching to a synthetic fluid as opposed to dino. As far as rebuilding the transmission with upgraded parts, there are many available and alot of folks have done it. Depends on your wallet and how you feel about it. If it were me i would just wait till it pukes then rebuild it better than factory
Hope this helps
The 4R100 is not as stout as the new Torqueshift in the newer SD but, you can tow in OD with any auto tranny as long as it is not hunting for gears. When in OD the torque converter is locked up to prevent slipping and reduces trans temps. If your transmission is hunting for gears then downshift out of OD.
Also as with any auto trans, a good temp gauge is a must and possibly an external oil cooler depending on the temps you are towing in. Also service your transmission at least every 30K miles with new fluid and if you are towing alot you may want to consider switching to a synthetic fluid as opposed to dino. As far as rebuilding the transmission with upgraded parts, there are many available and alot of folks have done it. Depends on your wallet and how you feel about it. If it were me i would just wait till it pukes then rebuild it better than factory
Hope this helps
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 3
Drive or tow in the tallest gear that the torque converter will stay locked up and the transmission is not downshifting.
On the back cover of the Ford towing guide there is a statement that says tow in overdrive unless the transmission is frequently downshifting.
On the back cover of the Ford towing guide there is a statement that says tow in overdrive unless the transmission is frequently downshifting.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
From: West Australia
Ok I am hearing all this!
I gotta tell you guys something, please don't think I'm biatchin - I'm just trying to help improve this site and the sponsors bidness!
I been reading this place a LOT - trying to play catch up ball with what you all have learned from each other with regards to the F250 7.3 PSD's.
I got onto a sponsors website, don't think it's politically correct to name sponsor because this may apply to many others also!
Firstly - I pointed out that up to now Dec 2006 we can still buy the F250 brand spankin new outta Brazil..with the 7.3 PSD
We cannot buy the newer 6 litre here at all - in fact next year 2007 Ford Australia aren't even going to import ANY F250's at all! (They don't meet the new emissions regulations in current format - the intention is to re start importing them in 2008 with an emissions compliant engine).
The point is, this website only has a forum heading for F250's with 7.3 PSD's until year model 2003...clearly the heading needs to go to year model 2006 (so dumbazzes like me with a 2004 7.3 PSD who are new to F trucks and this website know where to ask questions) - it's very confusing otherwise for those of us foreigners with F trucks that don't fit your category system for forums.
Next - RH drive - we drive on the wrong side of the road, been doing it forever. No one seems to take acount of this when manufacturing accessories / etc aftermarket parts for these trucks - where do I get a RH drive A pillar Gauge moulding??????? What - I should wear binoculars while I'm driving to watch my tranny gauge on the passengers (LH) A Pillar install moulding that comes with the gauge kit????
So, I get onto this sponsors website after days and days researching the aftermarket parts I want to try and protect my engine and tranny while towing...
Took me 4 hours online to find em all - and get em in my shopping cart! (I probablly only ever bought one part ever on line a steering wheel cover to suit the F 250 so am new to this internet shopping caper).
So after 4 hours of shuttling back n forth in the shopping cart..I go to check out - have my Amex Gold card handy, and am ready to spend $2.5k US on parts....
Only my order won't go thru?
Yup - they only ship to USA!!!!!
So - why waste 4 hours a my time and spurn my folding samoleans pacific peso's, and get me thoroughly pizzed off to the point i want to post the the internet anywhere in the world to badmouth these inconsiderare sponsors!
It would be too hard to have a warning when you log in to buy parts on line that overseas orders aren't welcome?????
The UPS Bill alone would have been another 2.5K....probably some insurance - then import duties this end, Goods & Services Tax and soon maybe I'd a ended up paying $8 - 10K Aus for those parts delivered but i wanted em what the heck anyway!
I can't understand 0 if your nations economy is on the slide a little and you want more sales - why you use the internet to reach people all over the word, who want your products but just can't buy them!
It would be to hard to employ a gal to do the international shipping?????
I just had to vent - I tried to post here a saved copy of my shopping list for another vendor who doies ship overseas, and who offered to do so to see if he could source the parts I wanted that his website doesn't specufically list...
The damned post comes back - unable to post because charatcers exceed 10,000 and there are html code etc in it!
Well of course theres more than 10,000 characters it's a copy from a online sponsors shopping cart list...and thats why it contains html...
No one can post that stuff unless an admin spefically turns that feature on for them?
How the heck - do I get the parts I want online from your country sponsors - I can't even post the damned list on here!
If you gusy don't want international participation...or overseas money - then why have a international members forum and invite us to post all our details in there etc etc!
It just don't make sense - it is wasting peoples valuabe time if theres no sign in banner - saying "US members web site only - dang ferrengners not welcome"!
When your products are not available to us and you don't want our trade...why the heck send your foreign and trade ambassadores here & get us to sign a new free trade agreement? It doesn't make any sense if you don't want to sell to us IMHO!
I just had to get that dirty water off my chest - 4+ wasted hours not to mention the weeks of research here - only to find out no one downunder carries the parts - and I can't buy them via sponsors here, kinda demanded it!
I feel better now - that is all - please carry on!
Cheers!
I been reading this place a LOT - trying to play catch up ball with what you all have learned from each other with regards to the F250 7.3 PSD's.
I got onto a sponsors website, don't think it's politically correct to name sponsor because this may apply to many others also!
Firstly - I pointed out that up to now Dec 2006 we can still buy the F250 brand spankin new outta Brazil..with the 7.3 PSD
We cannot buy the newer 6 litre here at all - in fact next year 2007 Ford Australia aren't even going to import ANY F250's at all! (They don't meet the new emissions regulations in current format - the intention is to re start importing them in 2008 with an emissions compliant engine).
The point is, this website only has a forum heading for F250's with 7.3 PSD's until year model 2003...clearly the heading needs to go to year model 2006 (so dumbazzes like me with a 2004 7.3 PSD who are new to F trucks and this website know where to ask questions) - it's very confusing otherwise for those of us foreigners with F trucks that don't fit your category system for forums.
Next - RH drive - we drive on the wrong side of the road, been doing it forever. No one seems to take acount of this when manufacturing accessories / etc aftermarket parts for these trucks - where do I get a RH drive A pillar Gauge moulding??????? What - I should wear binoculars while I'm driving to watch my tranny gauge on the passengers (LH) A Pillar install moulding that comes with the gauge kit????
So, I get onto this sponsors website after days and days researching the aftermarket parts I want to try and protect my engine and tranny while towing...
Took me 4 hours online to find em all - and get em in my shopping cart! (I probablly only ever bought one part ever on line a steering wheel cover to suit the F 250 so am new to this internet shopping caper).
So after 4 hours of shuttling back n forth in the shopping cart..I go to check out - have my Amex Gold card handy, and am ready to spend $2.5k US on parts....
Only my order won't go thru?
Yup - they only ship to USA!!!!!
So - why waste 4 hours a my time and spurn my folding samoleans pacific peso's, and get me thoroughly pizzed off to the point i want to post the the internet anywhere in the world to badmouth these inconsiderare sponsors!
It would be too hard to have a warning when you log in to buy parts on line that overseas orders aren't welcome?????
The UPS Bill alone would have been another 2.5K....probably some insurance - then import duties this end, Goods & Services Tax and soon maybe I'd a ended up paying $8 - 10K Aus for those parts delivered but i wanted em what the heck anyway!
I can't understand 0 if your nations economy is on the slide a little and you want more sales - why you use the internet to reach people all over the word, who want your products but just can't buy them!
It would be to hard to employ a gal to do the international shipping?????
I just had to vent - I tried to post here a saved copy of my shopping list for another vendor who doies ship overseas, and who offered to do so to see if he could source the parts I wanted that his website doesn't specufically list...
The damned post comes back - unable to post because charatcers exceed 10,000 and there are html code etc in it!
Well of course theres more than 10,000 characters it's a copy from a online sponsors shopping cart list...and thats why it contains html...
No one can post that stuff unless an admin spefically turns that feature on for them?
How the heck - do I get the parts I want online from your country sponsors - I can't even post the damned list on here!
If you gusy don't want international participation...or overseas money - then why have a international members forum and invite us to post all our details in there etc etc!
It just don't make sense - it is wasting peoples valuabe time if theres no sign in banner - saying "US members web site only - dang ferrengners not welcome"!
When your products are not available to us and you don't want our trade...why the heck send your foreign and trade ambassadores here & get us to sign a new free trade agreement? It doesn't make any sense if you don't want to sell to us IMHO!
I just had to get that dirty water off my chest - 4+ wasted hours not to mention the weeks of research here - only to find out no one downunder carries the parts - and I can't buy them via sponsors here, kinda demanded it!
I feel better now - that is all - please carry on!
Cheers!
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From: Hartford, WI
Flywest, have you tried contacting the sponsors and see if they will make an exception for such a large order? Secondly, have you though of buying the parts and shipping it to someone in the states and have them, for the price of shipping, send it to you? I might be willing to give it a shot if you want.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 245
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From: West Australia
Many thanks for the offer Aklim
Indeed I did email the company and i got a few emails back of the automated response type offering me discounts etc on future purchases - but no one as yet actually answered my request re purchase and ship to Aus!
Indded many folks downunder who have friends or relatives living stateside, will indeed get them to purchasee take delivery and on ship to Oz!
In doing so - often the parts are sent marked with a customs declaration as a 'gift' valued at less than some specific value (~<$250 Aus) so that import dutys and Goods & Services Taxes etc are exempt...
However this is technically illegal and I wouldn't feel comfortable putting ANYONE into a position of falsifying a customs declarations etc to try and thwart a few $ due and payable to our Govt as taxes - because it's immoral on my part to request same! (Render unto Ceasar what belongs unto Ceasar!) and all that....
I don't mind paying my way in this situation - I'mjust having a little troublke finding what I want from a online supply that will deliver downunder!
A couple of the places I have found have despatched some stuff (Oil Bypass Filters Kits for engine & tranny) etc to me so - I will test the waters with these first coupel shipments to see how it all goes!
I sent a sponsorship prize express air freight to some of MY US web fishing forum members in Florida for a fishing bash they are intending to hold soon, and that was 3 weeks ago, and it hasnt arrived as yet!
(Maybe Amelia Aerhart is at the controls of the DC10 delivering it)!
Same with the parts I ordered - a couple weeks and counting so far!
The hard parts to source are the deep pan for the tranny, and the Large Oil Cooler kit...and the pyro/gauges etc kit....
I havent yet found a international shipping sponsor who supplies these parts - with for example the RH PIllar moulding for the gauges rather than the left hand...
If worst comes to worst - my only option may be to do something such as you've suggested!
To be honest for what it costs to ship these parts via UPS as quoted to me so far - I could just buy two of everything and have them delivered to a US resident, for them to keep one of everything and onship the rest via cheapest air fraight available (Fed ex?)...
I know it's crazy - but thats how screwed up the system appears to be!
No wonder a New F250 CC 4wd with all the options downunder retails at Aus $120K - and they are walking out the door!
Anyway - thanks for listening...has to make you wonder if there is a business 'opportunity' there for someone with saome smarts to start up a export F truck parts supply bidness to a series of downunder franchisee's...as long as you get the shipping (by sea container?) sorted!
We just don't get companys supplying the myriad of F truck specific parts you all enjoy stateside - no one here wants to hold the parts inventory stock!
The ONLY Ford Truck shop in my state supplies these accessories!
Bonnet Protector
Billet Chromed Fuel Cap
Chromed Door handles
Extending towing mirrors
Billet Grill
Lift Kit
Chip/Tuner
Tranny Cooler
Sun Visor
Euro LED Tail lights
Long Range Fuel tank
Thats about it - thats your choice of upgrade items!
Anything else you want yopu have to order in from overseas basically!
This link pretty much sums up the availability:
http://www.ftrucks.com.au/accessories/index.shtml
Sad state of affairs IMHO!
Cheers!
Indded many folks downunder who have friends or relatives living stateside, will indeed get them to purchasee take delivery and on ship to Oz!
In doing so - often the parts are sent marked with a customs declaration as a 'gift' valued at less than some specific value (~<$250 Aus) so that import dutys and Goods & Services Taxes etc are exempt...
However this is technically illegal and I wouldn't feel comfortable putting ANYONE into a position of falsifying a customs declarations etc to try and thwart a few $ due and payable to our Govt as taxes - because it's immoral on my part to request same! (Render unto Ceasar what belongs unto Ceasar!) and all that....
I don't mind paying my way in this situation - I'mjust having a little troublke finding what I want from a online supply that will deliver downunder!
A couple of the places I have found have despatched some stuff (Oil Bypass Filters Kits for engine & tranny) etc to me so - I will test the waters with these first coupel shipments to see how it all goes!
I sent a sponsorship prize express air freight to some of MY US web fishing forum members in Florida for a fishing bash they are intending to hold soon, and that was 3 weeks ago, and it hasnt arrived as yet!
(Maybe Amelia Aerhart is at the controls of the DC10 delivering it)!
Same with the parts I ordered - a couple weeks and counting so far!
The hard parts to source are the deep pan for the tranny, and the Large Oil Cooler kit...and the pyro/gauges etc kit....
I havent yet found a international shipping sponsor who supplies these parts - with for example the RH PIllar moulding for the gauges rather than the left hand...
If worst comes to worst - my only option may be to do something such as you've suggested!
To be honest for what it costs to ship these parts via UPS as quoted to me so far - I could just buy two of everything and have them delivered to a US resident, for them to keep one of everything and onship the rest via cheapest air fraight available (Fed ex?)...
I know it's crazy - but thats how screwed up the system appears to be!
No wonder a New F250 CC 4wd with all the options downunder retails at Aus $120K - and they are walking out the door!
Anyway - thanks for listening...has to make you wonder if there is a business 'opportunity' there for someone with saome smarts to start up a export F truck parts supply bidness to a series of downunder franchisee's...as long as you get the shipping (by sea container?) sorted!
We just don't get companys supplying the myriad of F truck specific parts you all enjoy stateside - no one here wants to hold the parts inventory stock!
The ONLY Ford Truck shop in my state supplies these accessories!
Bonnet Protector
Billet Chromed Fuel Cap
Chromed Door handles
Extending towing mirrors
Billet Grill
Lift Kit
Chip/Tuner
Tranny Cooler
Sun Visor
Euro LED Tail lights
Long Range Fuel tank
Thats about it - thats your choice of upgrade items!
Anything else you want yopu have to order in from overseas basically!
This link pretty much sums up the availability:
http://www.ftrucks.com.au/accessories/index.shtml
Sad state of affairs IMHO!
Cheers!