Teach the kid!
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Yukon, Oklahoma
Teach the kid!
okay yall, going with the short intro im a 17 y/o kid learning to work on cars.
now i've been able to diagnose on my own that my 351m has an ignition timing issue (backfires out of the carb) and i've been trying to learn how to time it on the internet caues my old man is out of town, no go cause it only tells me how to time it if it is running. i need to know how to time it without it being turned on (if u havent guessed it wont start)
now i've been reading up as much as i can, i know that the distributor goes counter clockwise, heres what im gonna guess. starting at cylinder 1 it should go 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 around the distributor. thats just a guess. if i am wrong please correct me
so the 2 questions are
how do i set up the ignition timing (351M)
how to the plug wires go according to cylinder on the distributor
now i've been able to diagnose on my own that my 351m has an ignition timing issue (backfires out of the carb) and i've been trying to learn how to time it on the internet caues my old man is out of town, no go cause it only tells me how to time it if it is running. i need to know how to time it without it being turned on (if u havent guessed it wont start)
now i've been reading up as much as i can, i know that the distributor goes counter clockwise, heres what im gonna guess. starting at cylinder 1 it should go 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 around the distributor. thats just a guess. if i am wrong please correct me
so the 2 questions are
how do i set up the ignition timing (351M)
how to the plug wires go according to cylinder on the distributor
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 5
From: Delaware
Set the timing pointer to 0 degrees when the piston in #1 cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke. You can tel that it is on the compresion stroke when both valves are closed, or when there is pressure at the spark plug hole.
At this point the rotor in the distributor should point to #1 plug wire terminal. There may be a 1 on the cap at this terminal.
Rotate the motor by hand two complete revolutions in the direction of rotation. The rotor should now point to #3 plug wire terminal.
Connect the remaining plug wires as per the firing order.
Connect the timing light and attempt to start it. If it doesn't start Check the timing while it is cranking with the vacuum advance line removed from the distributor and plugged, and set it per specification.
Before you go through all this trouble, ask yourself 'How did it get so far out of time that it won't start?' You could have a stretched timing chain, or jumped a tooth on the timing gear.
Look up on the internet 'How to check for a stretched timing chain'.
At this point the rotor in the distributor should point to #1 plug wire terminal. There may be a 1 on the cap at this terminal.
Rotate the motor by hand two complete revolutions in the direction of rotation. The rotor should now point to #3 plug wire terminal.
Connect the remaining plug wires as per the firing order.
Connect the timing light and attempt to start it. If it doesn't start Check the timing while it is cranking with the vacuum advance line removed from the distributor and plugged, and set it per specification.
Before you go through all this trouble, ask yourself 'How did it get so far out of time that it won't start?' You could have a stretched timing chain, or jumped a tooth on the timing gear.
Look up on the internet 'How to check for a stretched timing chain'.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,003
Likes: 2
From: chicago burbs
"Rotate the motor by hand two complete revolutions in the direction of rotation. The rotor should now point to #3 plug wire terminal."
HOLD THAT! if you rotate the crank 2 full turns you'll be right back at #1 TDC, but it is good to check after dropping the dizzy in.
if you rotate the crank 90* from #1 TDC, you'll be at #3 TDC. another 90* will get you to #7 TDC, and so on, and so on.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/4...gordercard.jpg
cylinders 1234 are on the US passenger side, cylinders 5678 are on the US drivers side. it's not a chevy.
i agree with Danlee, you need to ask yourself why it got this way. could be the pin that holds the distributor gear is damaged and the distributor is out of time with the engine, it happens a lot. if it is, you need to make sure that the oil pump is still able to turn freely. a 5/16 socket fits on the oil pump driveshaft. counterclockwise should build pressure, clockwise should make bubbles. if it doesn't turn, uh oh.
HOLD THAT! if you rotate the crank 2 full turns you'll be right back at #1 TDC, but it is good to check after dropping the dizzy in.
if you rotate the crank 90* from #1 TDC, you'll be at #3 TDC. another 90* will get you to #7 TDC, and so on, and so on.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/4...gordercard.jpg
cylinders 1234 are on the US passenger side, cylinders 5678 are on the US drivers side. it's not a chevy.
i agree with Danlee, you need to ask yourself why it got this way. could be the pin that holds the distributor gear is damaged and the distributor is out of time with the engine, it happens a lot. if it is, you need to make sure that the oil pump is still able to turn freely. a 5/16 socket fits on the oil pump driveshaft. counterclockwise should build pressure, clockwise should make bubbles. if it doesn't turn, uh oh.
Last edited by grclark351; Dec 3, 2006 at 04:13 PM.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 5
From: Delaware
Originally Posted by grclark351
"Rotate the motor by hand two complete revolutions in the direction of rotation. The rotor should now point to #3 plug wire terminal."
HOLD THAT! if you rotate the crank 2 full turns you'll be right back at #1 TDC, but it is good to check after dropping the dizzy in.
HOLD THAT! if you rotate the crank 2 full turns you'll be right back at #1 TDC, but it is good to check after dropping the dizzy in.
OOOPS, My bad! It must have been late.
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
Likes: 37
The OEM timing chain needs to be changed at 80K miles. I have seen them fail any time after that. Replace it with an aftermarket roller chain setup so you can reset the cam timing to straight up or "0" on the new timing sprocket.
Old trucks are OLD and need lots of TLC!
Old trucks are OLD and need lots of TLC!
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Lynchburg, VA
Here are two tips....
1. To better see the timing line, fill in the groove with white out. It makes it a ton easier to see when the strobe form the gun is flashing. (Light flashes as spark passes through the wire)
2. To turn the motor a bit easier by hand (and without causing the truck to backfire) remove the spark plugs. No compression = much easier to turn. If the plug wires are installed be careful where the end goes. Don't want any nasty arcs into something flamable or a boot getting caught in a belt.
1. To better see the timing line, fill in the groove with white out. It makes it a ton easier to see when the strobe form the gun is flashing. (Light flashes as spark passes through the wire)
2. To turn the motor a bit easier by hand (and without causing the truck to backfire) remove the spark plugs. No compression = much easier to turn. If the plug wires are installed be careful where the end goes. Don't want any nasty arcs into something flamable or a boot getting caught in a belt.
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
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From: Yukon, Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Torque1st
The OEM timing chain needs to be changed at 80K miles. I have seen them fail any time after that. Replace it with an aftermarket roller chain setup so you can reset the cam timing to straight up or "0" on the new timing sprocket.
Old trucks are OLD and need lots of TLC!
Old trucks are OLD and need lots of TLC!
but
A $1000 car ain't even gonna roll,
til you throw at least another thousand in the hole.
Sink your money in it, and there you are
the owner of a 2,000 dollar 1,000 dollar car.
good song right there
but, i will keep throwing money at it!!!!....i also need to learn how to change a timing chain
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Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: chicago burbs
do you have the front cover off and you have visually confirmed that the timing chain has skipped?
or are you looking at the rotor pointing to the wrong position? could still be the dizzy gear pin. easier than a timing chain.
or are you looking at the rotor pointing to the wrong position? could still be the dizzy gear pin. easier than a timing chain.