Looks like I'll be changing the IP on my '87 6.9l in the next couple of days and would like to check the timing on the gear drive...just wondering how? It's been a few years since I changed the last one but recall having to look down the front cover for timing marks...am I close?

 

Take the front small cover/oil filler spout off.......not the gear tower/cover. Rotate the engine until the harmonic balancer line is at TDC......the line with the 0 on the tin plate. If the dowel pin on the timing gear/ip is at 11 oclock your on the back stroke of TDC, so continue rotating the engine until the dowel is at 4 oclock and the harmonic balancer line is at 0/TDC line.....

 

So...if I read you correctly...in order for the IP to be timed properly, the engine has to be at TDC and the IP gear dowel has to be at the 4 o'clock position. Isn't there marks on each gear behind the small cover which I have to line up?? I'm guessing they should be lined up if the above procedure is carried out correctly.

 

You can't see the timing marks without taking a lot of the engine front off.
Cam gear is down behind the plate behind the water pump.

You can pull the small plate on the front of the timing gear cover, or the oil fill spout if you have the older style timing gear cover. That lets you remove the IP drive gear bolts and see the dowel.

Install the new IP with the dowel in the dowel slot and the timing should be close enough to run.

 

Just a thought. If that engine isn't original to the truck, The dowel pin may have to be at 10 o'clock. Older 6.9's were this way. Like an 83 for example. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

Really?!? The pump is 180* out of time compared to the newer ones? I'm thinking that must be because the injector lines hook up to the nozzles on the back of the pump in a different order? Or is the pump actually different inside?

I ask, because the spare pump I just got from my buddy is off an '83. Wouldn't that be a surprise to put it (and the lines that came with it) on my truck and find that it is 180* out of time?!? THAT one would probably take some time to figure out what was wrong.

I'm going to have to compare it to mine to see if the difference is external. I'd bet it is the order that the lines are hooked up to the pump. Just wouldn't make sense that they would be 180* different internally.

 

The reason I ask is that the last one I changed I made the mistake of pulling the gear off with the IP. Not sure if I put the gear back on in the right spot and ever since then there's been a real bad miss when it starts but clears up when you hit the accelerator.

 

I made the same mistake you did but I realized it as soon as I took the pump off! I just about s**t my self....I removed the water pump, power steering pump, etc etc, pried the timing cover back and lined up the y & yy on the gears using a dentist style mirror. I sealed the front timing cover back up, lucky no leaks, installed new water, power steering and vacum pumps, crossed my fingers and started it up and it did!

 

The injection pump and the lines are the same. The cam has to ground differently. Your cam determines valve timing. You don't have to pull the front end completly off. You can see the cam drive gear marks with a mirror or use a small pick and you can feel it. Also some of the engines have single dimple for the crank to cam and the Y for the pump. You can feel the the marks with a pick. I don't know every difference in these engines from year to year. I can tell you that International would give you core credit for a 6.9 against a reman 7.3 exept an 83 year model Ford application. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

Zero if you do as I posted and everything is in place then the gear was put back in ok. If it is out, then you would be required to pull the cover off.

Then visit http://www.members.shaw.ca/k2pilot/ and find the recovery info and how too with pictures. I would send you to the web page but it is on a different Forum and I have been forbidden to lead you to it..... however my name on the other site is cdnsarguy should you go there........

 

I assume this was in answer to my question. Can someone explain this to me? If the pump is the same (including the notch in the shaft that the cam dowel fits into, and the pump lines are connected to the pump output fittings in the the same order, and go to the same injectors, how can it be timed correctly with the cam dowel be in the 10 o'clock position instead of the 4 o'clock position?

I understand how a camshaft works and if the cam lobes are in the same position on the two cams with the dowel in the 4 o'clock position on one of them, and the 10 o'clock position on the other one, rotating the pump (which I understood you to say is identical internally) from the 4 o'clock position, to the 10 o'clock position to match up with the cam dowel would put it 180 degrees out of time with the cam. Wouldn't it?

Now if the #4 and #1 injector lines were also swapped, and each of the other injector lines were swapped with the one 4 places away from it in the firing order, then it would work. Otherwise I can't see how it could possibly work based on my understanding of what you're saying. What am I missing here?

 

I am going to have to wait before I chime in on this, but I think all the 6.9 engines were the same.

As a side note, the 83 6.9 uses a DB2-4102 IP.
84 thru 87 uses a DB2-4746.

 

OK, so what is the difference?

 

Thanks fellas, I'll pull the cover off tomorrow and check the timing. BTW, how long should a IP last, mine's a little wet around the bottom but not leaking enough to smell it...the last one I changed started weeping out the telltale enough to smell the diesel while I was driving.

 

Zero, You don't have to tear down the front of your motor. No you can't put the pump,gear and cover on as an assembly but you can put the gear on by it's self then the cover and the pump. Get the motor at number compression and you can feel the mark with a dentile pick. You have 1/4 to 5/6 of an inch in front of the gear. The mark will be in the root of the cam gear mark it with white out and then set your pump gear in. This will save you alot of time.

Injection pumps last as long as a person takes care of them for the most part. Fuel filters, clean fuel to begin with. I changed my filter set-up. I am using a 2 micron secondary filter. Alot of pumps will get damp at the advance piston.

Jeaper, Where the difference is from that 83 engine of mine and the other engines I have, I am not for sure. The lines are the same. The pumps may assembled differently, The drives can be assembled differently or clocked differently at the hydraulic head. The cams could easily be the only difference. It could be ground so that the firing order is started off with #1's companion cyl. which would be #4. Change the cam drive gear and install any pump you want. I don't have another engine like this one cause I would tear it down, but I will do some research on this. I am going to get with my International dealer Friday.


Hey Dave, the engine serial is 6.9DU2U015499. International injection pump number is 991588C91 Build date on the truck is Oct. 82. I knew this engine was different and I never really thought much about it till I realized that somebody could get messed up setting a pump up if they have a engine like this one. Evidently they are not all the same. Like I said before, International would not take an 83 year engine for a core but would take an 84 and up 6.9. if you wanted to buy a 7.3. We are all gonna learn something on this one. No body lives long enough to know it all. Happy Thanksgiving to all.