Cooling problems-any suggestions?
Senior User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 226
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From: St. Louis, Missouri
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 07-Jun-02 AT 02:36 PM (EST)]Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I'm running a 302/C4 with a radiator from a full size Dodge van in my '51 F1. No A/C, no power steering. I need some suggestions on:
-The best way to get all of the air pockets from my cooling system.
-Suggestions on the size of radiator cap to prevent "boil-over."
-Suggestions on fans. I just have a 4 blade now and I'm leaning towards a rigid 6 blade and adding a cowl.
Most of my driving is around town and she runs about 195 degrees. However, she does jump to 210+ sometimes, especially after getting off the interstate.
Any ideas??
-The best way to get all of the air pockets from my cooling system.
-Suggestions on the size of radiator cap to prevent "boil-over."
-Suggestions on fans. I just have a 4 blade now and I'm leaning towards a rigid 6 blade and adding a cowl.
Most of my driving is around town and she runs about 195 degrees. However, she does jump to 210+ sometimes, especially after getting off the interstate.
Any ideas??
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,997
Likes: 2,742
From: Virginia
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
Leave the radiator cap off, and after filling the system, run it till the thermostat opens. This will get all the air out. It might overflow a few times before the thermostat opens.
An ocassional 210 degrees is excellent cooling in my opinion. You are only 15 degrees above the thermostat temp. You only need to be concerned when it gets over 230.
An ocassional 210 degrees is excellent cooling in my opinion. You are only 15 degrees above the thermostat temp. You only need to be concerned when it gets over 230.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
I like mine to run a bit cooler than that too. Franklin is correct though, 210 will really not hurt anything. I suggest about a 13-14 pound cap provided your radiator is solid. A couple suggestions are to run the best fan you can given the available clearances. You can also get fan spacers cheap and put the fan 1 1/2 inch or so from the radiator which I have read is optimal. Check out Summit and JEGS which both have websites, good prices and lightning fast shipping. (I just received a 6 blade Perma-Cool flex fan from JEGS yesterday.) Great quality and very reasonable. Your fan should actually be less of a factor at cruise speed. Are you running a fan shroud? They really help channel the air through the radiator. You may have to spend some time searching the salvage yard but should be able to find something that will work with slight modifications. Also, make sure you use rubber seals as best you can, from the radiator to the gravel shield, hood etc to force the air through the radiator at cruise speed. Good luck.
Dewayne
Dewayne
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 296
Likes: 1
From: Red Bluff U.S.A.
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
More blades is good but you might have to get your radiator checked to see if any of your cores are blocked, driving on the highway you get alot of air flow that keeps the temp down but around town the water can't flow fast enough.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,070
Likes: 2
From: Boise, Idaho
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-Jun-02 AT 06:17 AM (EST)]Erik,
Fans; the hot tip in Mustangs is to use the police fan clutch. A shroud is always a good idea.
Some other ideas, none of which answer any of your questions;
Do you use a coolant recovery/degas bottle?
Try putting a restrictor in the heater host to reduce the amount of coolant that by-passes the radiator.
Do you know whether your radiator is good? I get mine 'boiled out' at the radiator shop.
In my Mustang I used distilled water from the grocery store, it's cheap. 70/30 water/coolant mixture is optimum. Water carries more heat than anti-freeze, but anti-freeze has a higher boiling point.
I also added some redline water wetter to my Mustang. It runs too cool. After this summer, I'll probably get around to taking out the 180 thermostat and putting in the 195.
Oh, using Mobil 1 synthetic oil helps; creates less heat, doesn't vaporize like dino oil, and oil helps cools an engine.
EGR helps an engine run cooler but it requires a timing curve that's tailored to EGR.
Best of luck,
Fans; the hot tip in Mustangs is to use the police fan clutch. A shroud is always a good idea.
Some other ideas, none of which answer any of your questions;
Do you use a coolant recovery/degas bottle?
Try putting a restrictor in the heater host to reduce the amount of coolant that by-passes the radiator.
Do you know whether your radiator is good? I get mine 'boiled out' at the radiator shop.
In my Mustang I used distilled water from the grocery store, it's cheap. 70/30 water/coolant mixture is optimum. Water carries more heat than anti-freeze, but anti-freeze has a higher boiling point.
I also added some redline water wetter to my Mustang. It runs too cool. After this summer, I'll probably get around to taking out the 180 thermostat and putting in the 195.
Oh, using Mobil 1 synthetic oil helps; creates less heat, doesn't vaporize like dino oil, and oil helps cools an engine.
EGR helps an engine run cooler but it requires a timing curve that's tailored to EGR.
Best of luck,
Senior User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis, Missouri
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-Jun-02 AT 09:15 AM (EST)]Any preferances out their on fans? Rigid or Flex? I've heard the horror stories of flex fans coming apart...
-I'm running a 50/50 mix of water & anti-freeze.
-180 degre thermostat
-16 lb. cap
-recovery bottle
Also, I've been running with the water turned on to the heater core.(figuring that the extra circulation would help)
I know I need a shroud. Thanks for the ideas.
-I'm running a 50/50 mix of water & anti-freeze.
-180 degre thermostat
-16 lb. cap
-recovery bottle
Also, I've been running with the water turned on to the heater core.(figuring that the extra circulation would help)
I know I need a shroud. Thanks for the ideas.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
Erik
How many core rows does your radiator have? Three or more should be optimal. I think that flex fans are better than they used to be. Just my opinion, I can't really prove it. Some are now advertised as high RPM. I am running a flex fan out of necessity. Most of the stock fans I have seen are 18-19 inches. It is hard to use one that large unless your waterpump is centered vertically on the radiator core. You can also build a custom shroud I guess. I only had room for a 17 inch fan. An electric fan will also solve your problems but it wasn't the look I wanted. Ford also made their version of a flex fan in the late 70s cars. They are 18", very wide and heavy. I couldn't make it fit. I would choose a shroud before I bought a fan. Check out jegs.com and you will see you have many choices and they are not all all flex fans.
Dewayne
How many core rows does your radiator have? Three or more should be optimal. I think that flex fans are better than they used to be. Just my opinion, I can't really prove it. Some are now advertised as high RPM. I am running a flex fan out of necessity. Most of the stock fans I have seen are 18-19 inches. It is hard to use one that large unless your waterpump is centered vertically on the radiator core. You can also build a custom shroud I guess. I only had room for a 17 inch fan. An electric fan will also solve your problems but it wasn't the look I wanted. Ford also made their version of a flex fan in the late 70s cars. They are 18", very wide and heavy. I couldn't make it fit. I would choose a shroud before I bought a fan. Check out jegs.com and you will see you have many choices and they are not all all flex fans.
Dewayne
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Senior User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
My 51F1 has 302/C4, and original '51 radiator and 4 lb psi cap, with a nonclutch fan 2" from core, no shroud. My tranny has radiator front-mounted cooler, no interior radiator cooler. I run 178 f, in Sacramento summers. "Burping" the cooling system initially can be a bear, but once you get the air out, seems to work fine.
Senior User
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis, Missouri
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
Hmmm-sounds like I need a smaller/lighter cap. Ordered a chrome shroud yesterday. Itoughta be hear in a few days, then measure for largest diameter fan I can use. Thanks for all of the tips. I'll let y'all know-
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 124
From: Iowa
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
Erik
The lighter the cap, the lower temp you will boil at. If you are not catching the overflow in a reservoir, you will also lose coolant pretty easily. Many modern vehicles use 13-16 pound. I use 7 pounds on a car with a weak (rotten) radiator. I don't think 4 pound caps have been used since the 50's. I could be wrong though.
Dewayne
The lighter the cap, the lower temp you will boil at. If you are not catching the overflow in a reservoir, you will also lose coolant pretty easily. Many modern vehicles use 13-16 pound. I use 7 pounds on a car with a weak (rotten) radiator. I don't think 4 pound caps have been used since the 50's. I could be wrong though.
Dewayne
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,777
Likes: 553
From: Kalispell, MT
Cooling problems-any suggestions?
Stock for 51 was the 7 lb cap. The radiator is the weakest link in the system. Your 302/C4 is a modern combo, so figure your cap for the year of Dodge the radiator came from and you should be good.