What is Ford doing?
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Wyoming County, New York
38,000 to go at Ford
That is a big number...and just who is it that will be leaving? The most experienced (and granted, highest paid) people they have on the floor. It won't be deadwood management that can't see the forest for the trees, you can be sure of that!
The people will produce what they are allowed to produce, plain and simple. Maybe if management had been a bit sharper at contract time they would not have to blame failure on those least able to prevent failure. It's a blame game all over again like it has been for a century.
If the unions at Ford function anything like the rail transportation unions do, they look after a multitude of details important to people deemed not worthy of management's time and attention. But they are people issues that are worthy of attention and help keep people working and reasonably productive.
What's the quality control going to be like with 38,000 vacancies occurring almost overnight? There will be massive retraining, job shuffling, I can see a mess coming for them.
Glad I won't be buying for a while.
The people will produce what they are allowed to produce, plain and simple. Maybe if management had been a bit sharper at contract time they would not have to blame failure on those least able to prevent failure. It's a blame game all over again like it has been for a century.
If the unions at Ford function anything like the rail transportation unions do, they look after a multitude of details important to people deemed not worthy of management's time and attention. But they are people issues that are worthy of attention and help keep people working and reasonably productive.
What's the quality control going to be like with 38,000 vacancies occurring almost overnight? There will be massive retraining, job shuffling, I can see a mess coming for them.
Glad I won't be buying for a while.
Postmaster
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From: IL
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
Not doubting your sales figures, but do have a link?
Postmaster
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From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by BigF350
Which worker would you rather support??
The one that makes a car that I WANT
The one that makes a car that I WANT
The next comment will be, "But the money stays here..."
Fred, I know it's hard to believe I'm not being a smartazz, I honestly want to learn/understand why people think this way. Blind loyalty and the hope that one's favorite car company could do no wrong concerning its workers/country is the only thing that I can think of.
I am biased toward Ford, but I believe they would pull up stakes here and move the entire operation to China in a heartbeat if they thought it would make 'em an extra buck.
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From: Melbourne, Aus
I am biased toward Ford, but I believe they would pull up stakes here and move the entire operation to China in a heartbeat if they thought it would make 'em an extra buck.
In fairness what makes you think Toyota wouldn't do the same?
Think about this why is Toyota moving its manufacturing operations to the US, and why is Ford pulling out?
I know first hand what Ford are like as an employer (very good, if sometimes misguided), and I know second hand how Toyota are (never misguided - but not that great).
So, if I based my decision on who it was supporting employer wise.
Unfortunately, I would much rather support Ford employee's even if they aren't my fellow patriots, rather than Toyota because I believe in supporting a company that supports its workers rather than dictates to them.
In fairness what makes you think Toyota wouldn't do the same?
Think about this why is Toyota moving its manufacturing operations to the US, and why is Ford pulling out?
I know first hand what Ford are like as an employer (very good, if sometimes misguided), and I know second hand how Toyota are (never misguided - but not that great).
So, if I based my decision on who it was supporting employer wise.
Unfortunately, I would much rather support Ford employee's even if they aren't my fellow patriots, rather than Toyota because I believe in supporting a company that supports its workers rather than dictates to them.
Junior User
Joined: Oct 2006
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The bottom line folks is that GM, Ford and even Chysler source more parts on average for their vehicles domestically than any other Asian manufacturer. Honda's commercials play well on TV but check it out for yourslf then decide.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by BigF350
I am biased toward Ford, but I believe they would pull up stakes here and move the entire operation to China in a heartbeat if they thought it would make 'em an extra buck.
In fairness what makes you think Toyota wouldn't do the same?
Think about this why is Toyota moving its manufacturing operations to the US, and why is Ford pulling out?
I know first hand what Ford are like as an employer (very good, if sometimes misguided), and I know second hand how Toyota are (never misguided - but not that great).
So, if I based my decision on who it was supporting employer wise.
Unfortunately, I would much rather support Ford employee's even if they aren't my fellow patriots, rather than Toyota because I believe in supporting a company that supports its workers rather than dictates to them.
In fairness what makes you think Toyota wouldn't do the same?
Think about this why is Toyota moving its manufacturing operations to the US, and why is Ford pulling out?
I know first hand what Ford are like as an employer (very good, if sometimes misguided), and I know second hand how Toyota are (never misguided - but not that great).
So, if I based my decision on who it was supporting employer wise.
Unfortunately, I would much rather support Ford employee's even if they aren't my fellow patriots, rather than Toyota because I believe in supporting a company that supports its workers rather than dictates to them.
Ok, that's a fair reply. No doubt Toy, or any corp. for that matter, usually does things dictated by the bottom $$$$$.
As far as being treated fair, outside looking in, I've seen when Ford announces layoffs it will cut US workers first.....I see the "profits" a lot of people worry so much about go to building/buying foreign plants/companies.
I've seen 'em pass off vehicles that were assembled in Mexico that the dumb consumer (me and my all-American Super Duty) had no idea.
IMHO, it's one thing to favor Ford because it's what you grew up with or you like the product; it's another thing to think you're saving America by buying products from what is obviously a global company.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 1999
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From: Everett, Wa
Here is the deal. The reason Toyota and others foreign automakers build cars here is because they can do it cheaper than Ford or GM. They are not saddle with legacy cost and they pay there employees less. They avoid the same legacy cost that kill our companies by taking the manufacturing out of there country. They avoid shipping cost and tariffs. If Ford moved all production tomorrow to Mexico and slashed there labor cost you can be sure that Toyota will follow suit.
Unless Ford can get its cost in line with Toyota and others it will lose.
Unless Ford can get its cost in line with Toyota and others it will lose.
Postmaster
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From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by steve-oh
The bottom line folks is that GM, Ford and even Chysler source more parts on average for their vehicles domestically than any other Asian manufacturer. Honda's commercials play well on TV but check it out for yourslf then decide.
But help a brutha' out...........is there a site that lists % content?
And even if the part(s) are sourced from an American company, where are the parts actually made? Kinda like a Ford made in Mexico could still be considered an American car, a Bendix brake part made in China is still American??
Not knowing where you stand, I find it peculiar you list DCX in that list.
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Postmaster
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From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by tmyers
Here is the deal. The reason Toyota and others foreign automakers build cars here is because they can do it cheaper than Ford or GM. They are not saddle with legacy cost and they pay there employees less. They avoid the same legacy cost that kill our companies by taking the manufacturing out of there country. They avoid shipping cost and tariffs. If Ford moved all production tomorrow to Mexico and slashed there labor cost you can be sure that Toyota will follow suit.
Unless Ford can get its cost in line with Toyota and others it will lose.
Unless Ford can get its cost in line with Toyota and others it will lose.
Legacy costs are HUGE!!..........interesting story the other day where Kerry(not sure why a Senator from Mass. is involved) got with the auto companies to restructure the health benefits. They all want to keep catastrophic(sp?) coverage and get rid of the office visits and other "small" charges. Could help save some coin.
Those costs aside, the product does lag a tad .....which I understand could be a direct result of devolopment money not being there.
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From: Everett, Wa
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
Those costs aside, the product does lag a tad .....which I understand could be a direct result of devolopment money not being there.
I have owned them all and I don't find one brand to be better than the other. It all comes down to value. While the Vette and the Mustang are in classes by themselves buying the Ranger over Toyota was a know brainer 0% interest and much cheaper than the Toyota. 4 years and 50k miles later I don't regret the purchase. It has done everything I ever needed it to and more. Take a look at this pict. Not bad for a little Ranger.
Postmaster
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From: Las Vegas
Sure, I think Ford can compete, especially when they sweeten the pot with financing specials.
But there's just "something" about smaller Japanese motors over American motors.
I own a Ranger also........may be the toughest vehicle ever!!!!! But even the '95 4 cylinder Toy I just picked up is butter compared to the Ford V6.
Rented a V6 Fusion recently, no comparison to Toy's V6 in NVH.
I don't know if it's extra attention to internal balancing, better material in the mounts or what; but for the same price, I would buy an Accord or Camry over a Fusion. However, you're 100% correct; when you factor in 0% or huge rebates, I can "suffer" with a Ford...LOL!!
The Ranger Edge we bought the kid in '02, that's been through hell and back, listed for $16,000...about the same as a similar Toy 4 cylinder. But after rebates and D plan, we got it for $11K......the Toy dealer barely budged.
I will always doubt the Japanese advantage in durability and maintenance....Have done too many PITA CV joints on Hondas.....timing belts...got the class action lawsuit concerning my old ('02) Lexus....the Toy pickup I just bought has a WELL KNOWN defect in the clutch bracket that bolts to the firewall (that's why I got a nearly mint T-100 for $500, the guy thought the trans/clutch was bad!!)
You're right, they're close at the car level......
But there's just "something" about smaller Japanese motors over American motors.
I own a Ranger also........may be the toughest vehicle ever!!!!! But even the '95 4 cylinder Toy I just picked up is butter compared to the Ford V6.
Rented a V6 Fusion recently, no comparison to Toy's V6 in NVH.
I don't know if it's extra attention to internal balancing, better material in the mounts or what; but for the same price, I would buy an Accord or Camry over a Fusion. However, you're 100% correct; when you factor in 0% or huge rebates, I can "suffer" with a Ford...LOL!!
The Ranger Edge we bought the kid in '02, that's been through hell and back, listed for $16,000...about the same as a similar Toy 4 cylinder. But after rebates and D plan, we got it for $11K......the Toy dealer barely budged.
I will always doubt the Japanese advantage in durability and maintenance....Have done too many PITA CV joints on Hondas.....timing belts...got the class action lawsuit concerning my old ('02) Lexus....the Toy pickup I just bought has a WELL KNOWN defect in the clutch bracket that bolts to the firewall (that's why I got a nearly mint T-100 for $500, the guy thought the trans/clutch was bad!!)
You're right, they're close at the car level......
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From: Melbourne, Aus
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
As far as being treated fair, outside looking in, I've seen when Ford announces layoffs it will cut US workers first.....I see the "profits" a lot of people worry so much about go to building/buying foreign plants/companies.
And the layoffs? - Voluntary layoffs, with VERY GOOD payouts... hmm...
Some may see it as bad - I see it as catching up...
Postmaster
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From: Las Vegas
Originally Posted by BigF350
Building/buying plants that already exist in the same countries with a Toyota badge on them......
Originally Posted by BigF350
And the layoffs? - Voluntary layoffs, with VERY GOOD payouts... hmm...
Some may see it as bad - I see it as catching up...
Some may see it as bad - I see it as catching up...
Not the latest rounds of layoffs; I'm talkin' last year when Ford announced 30,000 layoffs..........all from U.S. and Canadian plants.
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From: IL
[QUOTE=DOHCmarauder]...is there a site that lists % content?
And even if the part(s) are sourced from an American company, where are the parts actually made?[QUOTE]
I'm not sure if I can post the linky as I've been shot down twice now on other threads trying to for other stuff, but there is a site that lists Ford F-series on top of the "Top Ten List" having the most American assembly plants at 4, 2nd is chevy with two plants. Info is on cars.com.
I also read an article a while back, may be the same site, that also had the F-series as having the highest % of American made parts as well at 92%, if the ole noodle is serving me correctly this AM.
Here's a great example of this supposed "fair" trade agreement we have with some of our asian friends(?) in the auto industry. I had a choice from Oreilly's for two rotors that were manufactured in different country's for our T-Bird, China and the US. The chinese ones were $20/ea, one year limited warranty. The American made were $45/ea, lifetime. If one's struggling to make ends meet, which many more are now-a-days in this country, which one are they likely going to buy?
And even if the part(s) are sourced from an American company, where are the parts actually made?[QUOTE]
I'm not sure if I can post the linky as I've been shot down twice now on other threads trying to for other stuff, but there is a site that lists Ford F-series on top of the "Top Ten List" having the most American assembly plants at 4, 2nd is chevy with two plants. Info is on cars.com.
I also read an article a while back, may be the same site, that also had the F-series as having the highest % of American made parts as well at 92%, if the ole noodle is serving me correctly this AM.
Here's a great example of this supposed "fair" trade agreement we have with some of our asian friends(?) in the auto industry. I had a choice from Oreilly's for two rotors that were manufactured in different country's for our T-Bird, China and the US. The chinese ones were $20/ea, one year limited warranty. The American made were $45/ea, lifetime. If one's struggling to make ends meet, which many more are now-a-days in this country, which one are they likely going to buy?