57-60 Brake Question, Help, for safety's sake!
#16
11-11-2006, 07:14 PM
Doesn't your 57 have hanging pedals and firewall mounted MC? The 53-56 had underfloor mounted MC and thru floor pedals. There are very few MC mounting bolt patterns. Measure yours and go to a GOOD parts store where they know how to use catalogs and find a dual chamber from a vehicle that had drum/drum and has the same mounting pattern. I know my 67 Tempest had drum/drum dual chambered MC, that's about the time all vehicles had to have split brake system, but disks were a pricey option. I later swapped in a set of Chevelle front disks because the stock drum brakes would fade badly in the hot weather.
#17
11-11-2006, 08:39 PM
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THIS IS THE LINK YOU NEED. THIS HELPED ME OUT.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/article/...ough_1964.html
https://www.ford-trucks.com/article/...ough_1964.html
#18
11-11-2006, 10:05 PM
A dual master cylinder is a lot safer than a single master. To have a complete failure of a dual system would require 3 cup seals to fail where a single only needs 1. Having driven a vehicle that has had a brake failure due to a brake line. If it was single system, I would have lost brakes completely but with the dual system I was able to stop. The new systems are cross linked where you have one disc and drum per master cylinder piston.
Disc brakes are way better than drums. They are almost impervious to mechanical fade, highly resistant to gas, lining and heat fade. Since they are a non servo, they apply immediately and don't suffer from pull. The only downside to them is their park brake efficiency. Drums have a higher static friction due to the lining size. If drum brakes are so good why do all new vehicles have front disc brakes? It's because drum brake vehicles can't meet the stopping distance requirements.
The dual servo drum brakes have the best stopping ability (for drums) in the forward direction but are marginal in reverse. They also don't have consistent braking to be used with ABS systems. They are only used on larger trucks.
Leading and trailing brakes have equal stopping ability in both directions but don't have the stopping ability as the dual servo. This type of brakes is excellent for ABS due to its consistent braking.
If vehicles had an equal weight bias, everything now would have 4 wheel disc and just have the drum park brake inside the rear rotor hat. Since most vehicles have a high front weight bias, rear drum brakes are more cost effective since if hardly does any braking thus its main function as a park brake.
At school we had a demonstration of a vacuum booster's effectiveness on line pressure. They had a 1" bore disc/drum master cylinder with booster and pressure gauges on the line outputs from the combo valve. It has a 5:1 pedal ratio. By hand we were only able to get 200 psi on the disc and 400 on the drum. After turning on the vacuum pump we were able to get 1500 psi on the disc and 750 psi on the drums. Vacuum boosters are a good assist and the only thing better is a hydraboost or maybe one of those new electric pumps.
I'm not saying you can't have manual brakes but it takes a little more calculation to get it right. They normally have a smaller bore than a power master which increases the pressure but decreases the volume. You don't want to use 1 1/8" wheel cylinders with a 7/8" bore master cylinder because you probably won't have enough volume to actuate the drum brakes fully. The stock pedal assembly on these trucks have the right ratio but if you change to a hanging pedal assembly, its a little harder to find a factory non-assisted pedal assembly.
Not everyone wants to use an expensive dual single master cylinder setup. The corner part store won't carry a replacement and it's a lot simpler to use the whole assembly from a donor vehicle.
Also how many times does the average person adjust their brakes? Never. That's also why tire pressure monitors will become standard equipment soon but that is another matter.
Later...
Disc brakes are way better than drums. They are almost impervious to mechanical fade, highly resistant to gas, lining and heat fade. Since they are a non servo, they apply immediately and don't suffer from pull. The only downside to them is their park brake efficiency. Drums have a higher static friction due to the lining size. If drum brakes are so good why do all new vehicles have front disc brakes? It's because drum brake vehicles can't meet the stopping distance requirements.
The dual servo drum brakes have the best stopping ability (for drums) in the forward direction but are marginal in reverse. They also don't have consistent braking to be used with ABS systems. They are only used on larger trucks.
Leading and trailing brakes have equal stopping ability in both directions but don't have the stopping ability as the dual servo. This type of brakes is excellent for ABS due to its consistent braking.
If vehicles had an equal weight bias, everything now would have 4 wheel disc and just have the drum park brake inside the rear rotor hat. Since most vehicles have a high front weight bias, rear drum brakes are more cost effective since if hardly does any braking thus its main function as a park brake.
At school we had a demonstration of a vacuum booster's effectiveness on line pressure. They had a 1" bore disc/drum master cylinder with booster and pressure gauges on the line outputs from the combo valve. It has a 5:1 pedal ratio. By hand we were only able to get 200 psi on the disc and 400 on the drum. After turning on the vacuum pump we were able to get 1500 psi on the disc and 750 psi on the drums. Vacuum boosters are a good assist and the only thing better is a hydraboost or maybe one of those new electric pumps.
I'm not saying you can't have manual brakes but it takes a little more calculation to get it right. They normally have a smaller bore than a power master which increases the pressure but decreases the volume. You don't want to use 1 1/8" wheel cylinders with a 7/8" bore master cylinder because you probably won't have enough volume to actuate the drum brakes fully. The stock pedal assembly on these trucks have the right ratio but if you change to a hanging pedal assembly, its a little harder to find a factory non-assisted pedal assembly.
Not everyone wants to use an expensive dual single master cylinder setup. The corner part store won't carry a replacement and it's a lot simpler to use the whole assembly from a donor vehicle.
Also how many times does the average person adjust their brakes? Never. That's also why tire pressure monitors will become standard equipment soon but that is another matter.
Later...
#19
11-11-2006, 11:02 PM
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#20
11-12-2006, 01:28 AM
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A justification of engineering excess.....
Originally Posted by 51dueller
A dual master cylinder is a lot safer than a single master. To have a complete failure of a dual system would require 3 cup seals to fail where a single only needs 1.Or a failure of the pedal or pedal linkage which would disable two systems. Or a hydraulic failure of either side with no warning light. Having driven a vehicle that has had a brake failure due to a brake line. If it was single system, I would have lost brakes completely but with the dual system I was able to stop. The new systems are cross linked where you have one disc and drum per master cylinder piston. Two separate systems are always much more safe as each depends only on the pedal linkage.
Disc brakes are way better than drums. Under proscribed circumstances. They are almost impervious to mechanical fade,Not true, just go to higher temperatures highly resistant to gas, lining and heat fade. Since they are a non servo, they apply immediately and don't suffer from pull. The only downside to them is their park brake efficiency. Their other disadvantage is the very high line pressure. This makes using them with drum brakes very difficult unless the systems are entirely separate. Drums have a higher static friction due to the lining size. If drum brakes are so good why do all new vehicles have front disc brakes? It's because drum brake vehicles can't meet the stopping distance Again not true. Stopping distance is very good until heat fade. requirements.
The dual servo drum brakes have the best stopping ability (for drums) in the forward direction but are marginal in reverse. They also don't have consistent braking to be used with ABS systems.ABS systems are like political correctness. They are not needed on 4wd vehicles. They are a reaction to poor drivers. They are only used on larger trucks. And what about non servo drum brakes as were used from 1939-1948? They are on a great many hot rods. They work equally well in either direction.
Leading and trailing brakes have equal stopping ability in both directions but don't have the stopping abilityYou are again incorrect. A servo brake due to is self energization has lower line pressure. A non servo brake requires higher line pressure. The braking ability of a brake is the area of the shoes acting on the drum. You are confusing stopping ability with line pressure. as the dual servo. This type of brakes is excellent for ABS due to its consistent braking.
If vehicles had an equal weight bias, A great many vehicles do have equal weight bias. A lot of vehicles do have 4 wheel disc brakes, including my Silverado Pickup. everything now would have 4 wheel disc and just have the drum park brake inside the rear rotor hat. Since most vehicles have a high front weight bias, rear drum brakes are more cost effective since if hardly does any braking This is again not true. Most rear wheel drive vehicles do 40% of their braking with the rear. thus its main function as a park brake.
At school Now I understand, the old school bias. If it was taught in school it is true. we had a demonstration of a vacuum booster's effectiveness on line pressure. Who is saying a brake booster is not effective in boosting line pressure? That is not the question. The question is why boost line pressure with a device that can fail when using a piston size of 3/4" yields a line pressure of 1200psi with a foot pressure of 70 lbs? They had a 1" bore disc/drum master cylinder with booster and pressure gauges on the line outputs from the combo valve. It has a 5:1 pedal ratio. By hand we were only able to get 200 psi on the disc and 400 on the drum.And this is because with a booster, the stroke of the pedal is reduced along with the mechanical advantage. Thus, with a booster off on a pedal with reduced stroke, you cannot get enough line pressure for two reasons: incorrect piston size, and reduced mechanical advantage. This is the danger with a booster, as it is another item that can fail with catastrophic consequences. After turning on the vacuum pump we were able to get 1500 psi on the disc and 750 psi on the drums. Vacuum boosters are a good assist and the only thing better is a hydraboost or maybe one of those new electric pumps.
I'm not saying you can't have manual brakes but it takes a little more calculation to get it right. They normally have a smaller bore than a power master which increases the pressure but decreases the volume.You do not need volume with a disk piston. You don't want to use 1 1/8" wheel cylinders with a 7/8" bore master cylinder because you probably won't have enough volume to actuate the drum brakes fully.Yes you will, in fact you have more than enough leeway to size accurately. The stock pedal assembly on these trucks have the right ratio but if you change to a hanging pedal assembly, its a little harder to find a factory non-assisted pedal assembly.
Race cars do not use boosters. Race cars need very good brake modulation. Race cars use separate master cylinders. Separate master cylinders do not cost as much as a booster. In short, you have your biases based on your schooling, but you obviously have not built brake systems that must not fail in emergencies. As I stated and you have repeatedly ignored, all of engineering is a compromise, and I believe OEM booster systems are too much of a compromise. They are not nearly as safe as separate manual systems.
Not everyone wants to use an expensive dual single master cylinder setup. The corner part store won't carry a replacement and it's a lot simpler to use the whole assembly from a donor vehicle.Even a badly engineered donor vehicle?
Also how many times does the average person adjust their brakes? Never.Gee, that's comforting coming from a hobbyist that works on his own cars. That's also why tire pressure monitors will become standard equipment soon but that is another matter.
Later...
Disc brakes are way better than drums. Under proscribed circumstances. They are almost impervious to mechanical fade,Not true, just go to higher temperatures highly resistant to gas, lining and heat fade. Since they are a non servo, they apply immediately and don't suffer from pull. The only downside to them is their park brake efficiency. Their other disadvantage is the very high line pressure. This makes using them with drum brakes very difficult unless the systems are entirely separate. Drums have a higher static friction due to the lining size. If drum brakes are so good why do all new vehicles have front disc brakes? It's because drum brake vehicles can't meet the stopping distance Again not true. Stopping distance is very good until heat fade. requirements.
The dual servo drum brakes have the best stopping ability (for drums) in the forward direction but are marginal in reverse. They also don't have consistent braking to be used with ABS systems.ABS systems are like political correctness. They are not needed on 4wd vehicles. They are a reaction to poor drivers. They are only used on larger trucks. And what about non servo drum brakes as were used from 1939-1948? They are on a great many hot rods. They work equally well in either direction.
Leading and trailing brakes have equal stopping ability in both directions but don't have the stopping abilityYou are again incorrect. A servo brake due to is self energization has lower line pressure. A non servo brake requires higher line pressure. The braking ability of a brake is the area of the shoes acting on the drum. You are confusing stopping ability with line pressure. as the dual servo. This type of brakes is excellent for ABS due to its consistent braking.
If vehicles had an equal weight bias, A great many vehicles do have equal weight bias. A lot of vehicles do have 4 wheel disc brakes, including my Silverado Pickup. everything now would have 4 wheel disc and just have the drum park brake inside the rear rotor hat. Since most vehicles have a high front weight bias, rear drum brakes are more cost effective since if hardly does any braking This is again not true. Most rear wheel drive vehicles do 40% of their braking with the rear. thus its main function as a park brake.
At school Now I understand, the old school bias. If it was taught in school it is true. we had a demonstration of a vacuum booster's effectiveness on line pressure. Who is saying a brake booster is not effective in boosting line pressure? That is not the question. The question is why boost line pressure with a device that can fail when using a piston size of 3/4" yields a line pressure of 1200psi with a foot pressure of 70 lbs? They had a 1" bore disc/drum master cylinder with booster and pressure gauges on the line outputs from the combo valve. It has a 5:1 pedal ratio. By hand we were only able to get 200 psi on the disc and 400 on the drum.And this is because with a booster, the stroke of the pedal is reduced along with the mechanical advantage. Thus, with a booster off on a pedal with reduced stroke, you cannot get enough line pressure for two reasons: incorrect piston size, and reduced mechanical advantage. This is the danger with a booster, as it is another item that can fail with catastrophic consequences. After turning on the vacuum pump we were able to get 1500 psi on the disc and 750 psi on the drums. Vacuum boosters are a good assist and the only thing better is a hydraboost or maybe one of those new electric pumps.
I'm not saying you can't have manual brakes but it takes a little more calculation to get it right. They normally have a smaller bore than a power master which increases the pressure but decreases the volume.You do not need volume with a disk piston. You don't want to use 1 1/8" wheel cylinders with a 7/8" bore master cylinder because you probably won't have enough volume to actuate the drum brakes fully.Yes you will, in fact you have more than enough leeway to size accurately. The stock pedal assembly on these trucks have the right ratio but if you change to a hanging pedal assembly, its a little harder to find a factory non-assisted pedal assembly.
Race cars do not use boosters. Race cars need very good brake modulation. Race cars use separate master cylinders. Separate master cylinders do not cost as much as a booster. In short, you have your biases based on your schooling, but you obviously have not built brake systems that must not fail in emergencies. As I stated and you have repeatedly ignored, all of engineering is a compromise, and I believe OEM booster systems are too much of a compromise. They are not nearly as safe as separate manual systems.
Not everyone wants to use an expensive dual single master cylinder setup. The corner part store won't carry a replacement and it's a lot simpler to use the whole assembly from a donor vehicle.Even a badly engineered donor vehicle?
Also how many times does the average person adjust their brakes? Never.Gee, that's comforting coming from a hobbyist that works on his own cars. That's also why tire pressure monitors will become standard equipment soon but that is another matter.
Later...
#21
11-12-2006, 07:56 AM
Hey alanco
Why don't you tell us what you really think.
This forum is for discussion not Pontification.
I'm totally on the side of safety, good maintenance and good driving. However in our imperfect world that don't always happen.
There's the old saying about opinions, everyone having one, blah blah. Your's is obvisouly a big one, but it's not the only one.
Have a Good Day.
Why don't you tell us what you really think.
This forum is for discussion not Pontification.
I'm totally on the side of safety, good maintenance and good driving. However in our imperfect world that don't always happen.
There's the old saying about opinions, everyone having one, blah blah. Your's is obvisouly a big one, but it's not the only one.
Have a Good Day.
#22
11-12-2006, 09:02 AM
The people who frequent this board aren't an average person. The average person jumps in their vehicle and drives from point A-B. They will only get something fixed if something goes wrong or a little light tells them to do something.They know very little on how a vehicle works but want it to work period.
#23
11-12-2006, 09:45 AM
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These are the brakes
Nahan.
Where are you <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com[img] /><st1:PersonName><SPAN style=[/img]t</SPAN></st1:PersonName><font color=" /><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>aking your courses a</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>? I see </FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>ha</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black> you have some good </FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>echnical advice coming from somewhere. I did spend many years in a brake shop bu</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black> have been ou</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black> of i</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black> for almos</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black> 17 years now, so some s</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>uff has changed significan</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>ly. Yes you are righ</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black> abou</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t </FONT></st1:PersonName><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>he people </FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>ha</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black> would come in and have </FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>his </FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>errible noise coming form somewhere on </FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>heir vehicle and </FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>hen we would find me</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>al on me</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>al. This is never a good sign.<O
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<FONT color=black>There are lo</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>s of s</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>ories like </FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>his and I can imagine some a lo</FONT><st1:PersonName><FONT color=black>t</FONT></st1:PersonName><FONT color=black> worse.<O</O</FONT>
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Last edited by DonMckay; 11-12-2006 at 09:52 AM. Reason: poor grammer
#24
11-12-2006, 11:24 AM
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The Average F-100 Hobbyist
Originally Posted by 51dueller
The people who frequent this board aren't an average person. The average person jumps in their vehicle and drives from point A-B. They will only get something fixed if something goes wrong or a little light tells them to do something.They know very little on how a vehicle works but want it to work period.
Growing up I learned how to drive in the mountains with drum brakes, and we leaned not to heat them up excessively and we used the engine for braking. Many city drivers lost their brakes on a long grade that dropped into my home town. The use of disc brakes has made a poor driver safe, but has also spawned a type of driving that overbrakes from braking at the last minute. Safe drivers drive ahead and back off early and rarely have brake problems. Driving in ice and snow demand smoothness and anticipation. Driving on dirt and mud also requires smoothness and deliberate actions.
Those of us in a car hobby, should not only drive safely, but should keep our cars and trucks safe. This would mean that we learn about our rides and endeavor to keep them in good condition. If we fail at this, we will lose our hobby. Only lobbying by SEMA and other organizations have kept states from banning older vehicles. Many politicians would like to have old cars crushed so that we all would have to drive little econoboxes.
Regards,
Alanco
#25
11-12-2006, 02:31 PM
I meant the whole 298,444,215 people is the US. Us hobbyist's are a minority in the population. If people maintained vehicles like you have previous mentioned, there would be less new vehicle sales do to less worn out vehicles. SEMA has done wonders for our hobby.
If the world was perfect, we wouldn't need disc brakes, EFI, seat belts, airbags, collapsible steering columns, ABS, electronic tire pressure gauges, idiot lights, oil change reminders, radial tires, navigational systems, greaseless joints and gearings etc but some of these have made improvements to vehicle safety and longevity.
If you apply your "no gadget" principal to other vehicle systems. There would be no need for power steering since if you lose pressure, steering is too hard since the mechanical advantage (big steering wheel) is gone. There also be no need for a computer since if a sensor goes, you lose efficiency or engine control. I could list more but it would be redundant.
In 50 years technology has made improvements which are worth adapting to these vehicles. Sure the old stuff worked well for it's time but times are different. Speed limits have increased, as well the amount of vehicles on the road. How many of these old trucks can handle 70 mph comfortably? I don't think you would like to keep the bias tire and the good old worm and sector steering boxes which were worn at 50 000 miles. You'd want a smoother riding radial and reciprocating ball steering box.
That's why most daily driven old vehicles have been updated with later suspensions, engines, transmissions, electronics, and brakes. It allows them to be safer and to keep them from hitting the guy in the red Honda that cuts in front of you on the freeway.
Sometimes gadgets are better. Without gadgets we would be using snail mail to converse and abacuses to calculate mathematical problems.
I may not have any experience with mountain braking due to Saskatchewan being flat but I know ice and snow. ABS can be a godsend when you have just got freezing rain the previous night. You can barely walk to your car without falling on your behind 3 times but you got to get to school/work. Without ABS just touching the brake will put you in a sideways skid. Sure winter tires help but you can't steer if your front tires aren't turning.
Sincerely,
If the world was perfect, we wouldn't need disc brakes, EFI, seat belts, airbags, collapsible steering columns, ABS, electronic tire pressure gauges, idiot lights, oil change reminders, radial tires, navigational systems, greaseless joints and gearings etc but some of these have made improvements to vehicle safety and longevity.
If you apply your "no gadget" principal to other vehicle systems. There would be no need for power steering since if you lose pressure, steering is too hard since the mechanical advantage (big steering wheel) is gone. There also be no need for a computer since if a sensor goes, you lose efficiency or engine control. I could list more but it would be redundant.
In 50 years technology has made improvements which are worth adapting to these vehicles. Sure the old stuff worked well for it's time but times are different. Speed limits have increased, as well the amount of vehicles on the road. How many of these old trucks can handle 70 mph comfortably? I don't think you would like to keep the bias tire and the good old worm and sector steering boxes which were worn at 50 000 miles. You'd want a smoother riding radial and reciprocating ball steering box.
That's why most daily driven old vehicles have been updated with later suspensions, engines, transmissions, electronics, and brakes. It allows them to be safer and to keep them from hitting the guy in the red Honda that cuts in front of you on the freeway.
Sometimes gadgets are better. Without gadgets we would be using snail mail to converse and abacuses to calculate mathematical problems.
I may not have any experience with mountain braking due to Saskatchewan being flat but I know ice and snow. ABS can be a godsend when you have just got freezing rain the previous night. You can barely walk to your car without falling on your behind 3 times but you got to get to school/work. Without ABS just touching the brake will put you in a sideways skid. Sure winter tires help but you can't steer if your front tires aren't turning.
Sincerely,
#26
11-12-2006, 04:02 PM
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We mostly agree.......
Originally Posted by 51dueller
I meant the whole 298,444,215 people is the US. Us hobbyist's are a minority in the population. If people maintained vehicles like you have previous mentioned, there would be less new vehicle sales do to less worn out vehicles. SEMA has done wonders for our hobby.
If the world was perfect, we wouldn't need disc brakes, EFI, seat belts, airbags, collapsible steering columns, ABS, electronic tire pressure gauges, idiot lights, oil change reminders, radial tires, navigational systems, greaseless joints and gearings etc but some of these have made improvements to vehicle safety and longevity.
If you apply your "no gadget" principal to other vehicle systems. There would be no need for power steering since if you lose pressure, steering is too hard since the mechanical advantage (big steering wheel) is gone. There also be no need for a computer since if a sensor goes, The computer runs in open loop mode(limp home) You still have great gas mileage. you lose efficiency or engine control. I could list more but it would be redundant.
In 50 years technology has made improvements which are worth adapting to these vehicles. Sure the old stuff worked well for it's time but times are different. Speed limits have increased,Actually, they haven't in the western states. The interstates are finished and are better, but in both Idaho and Nevada, speed limits are lower than they were. In California there is so much traffic that the average speed is much lower than 30 years ago and the roads are very rough. they as well the amount of vehicles on the road. How many of these old trucks can handle 70 mph comfortably? I don't think you would like to keep the bias tire I drove many miles at speed(Nevada never had a speed limit prior to 1973) with bias ply tires. The radials are an improvement, but bias ply were ok at speed and gave a lot more warning prior to breaking loose. and the good old worm and sector steering boxes which were worn at 50 000 miles. You'd want a smoother riding radial and reciprocating ball steering box. You have me there, I use a GM Power Saginaw steering box from a FSV Cherokee, which has a horizontal link to the right spindle. No bump steer with this design.
That's why most daily driven old vehicles have been updated with later suspensions, engines, transmissions, electronics,Especially the EFI computer on the SBC 350. For cold starts, hot starts and fantastic gas mileage. and brakes. It allows them to be safer and to keep them from hitting the guy in the red Honda that cuts in front of you on the freeway.
Sometimes gadgets are better. Without gadgets we would be using snail mail to converse and abacuses to calculate mathematical problems.
I may not have any experience with mountain braking due to Saskatchewan being flat but I know ice and snow. ABS can be a godsend when you have just got freezing rain the previous night. You can barely walk to your car without falling on your behind 3 times but you got to get to school/work. Without ABS just touching the brake will put you in a sideways skid. Sure winter tires help but you can't steer if your front tires aren't turning.With 4WD, it is virtually impossible to lock a wheel since to do so means locking up the entire drivetrain, including the transfer case. ABS really is just for 2WD.
Sincerely,
If the world was perfect, we wouldn't need disc brakes, EFI, seat belts, airbags, collapsible steering columns, ABS, electronic tire pressure gauges, idiot lights, oil change reminders, radial tires, navigational systems, greaseless joints and gearings etc but some of these have made improvements to vehicle safety and longevity.
If you apply your "no gadget" principal to other vehicle systems. There would be no need for power steering since if you lose pressure, steering is too hard since the mechanical advantage (big steering wheel) is gone. There also be no need for a computer since if a sensor goes, The computer runs in open loop mode(limp home) You still have great gas mileage. you lose efficiency or engine control. I could list more but it would be redundant.
In 50 years technology has made improvements which are worth adapting to these vehicles. Sure the old stuff worked well for it's time but times are different. Speed limits have increased,Actually, they haven't in the western states. The interstates are finished and are better, but in both Idaho and Nevada, speed limits are lower than they were. In California there is so much traffic that the average speed is much lower than 30 years ago and the roads are very rough. they as well the amount of vehicles on the road. How many of these old trucks can handle 70 mph comfortably? I don't think you would like to keep the bias tire I drove many miles at speed(Nevada never had a speed limit prior to 1973) with bias ply tires. The radials are an improvement, but bias ply were ok at speed and gave a lot more warning prior to breaking loose. and the good old worm and sector steering boxes which were worn at 50 000 miles. You'd want a smoother riding radial and reciprocating ball steering box. You have me there, I use a GM Power Saginaw steering box from a FSV Cherokee, which has a horizontal link to the right spindle. No bump steer with this design.
That's why most daily driven old vehicles have been updated with later suspensions, engines, transmissions, electronics,Especially the EFI computer on the SBC 350. For cold starts, hot starts and fantastic gas mileage. and brakes. It allows them to be safer and to keep them from hitting the guy in the red Honda that cuts in front of you on the freeway.
Sometimes gadgets are better. Without gadgets we would be using snail mail to converse and abacuses to calculate mathematical problems.
I may not have any experience with mountain braking due to Saskatchewan being flat but I know ice and snow. ABS can be a godsend when you have just got freezing rain the previous night. You can barely walk to your car without falling on your behind 3 times but you got to get to school/work. Without ABS just touching the brake will put you in a sideways skid. Sure winter tires help but you can't steer if your front tires aren't turning.With 4WD, it is virtually impossible to lock a wheel since to do so means locking up the entire drivetrain, including the transfer case. ABS really is just for 2WD.
Sincerely,
I use power steering reluctantly, but with bigger tires I have to use it. With the 2WD beam axle trucks, the power rack and pinion steering can mount right on the axle. Works great.
Regards,
Alanco
#27
11-12-2006, 05:35 PM
Well, up here speed limits have increased and we have bad roads. Yes ABS is more for 2wd (keeps the rearend from passing you) but you can lock-up a 4wd (it's a little harder). The easiest would be if it's an automatic since you would just slow down the torque converter but for a manual transmission, you would have to disengage the clutch or you only try to overpower the engine. Most guys here want a lowered 2wd vehicle and the trucks aren't subjected to conditions where a 4wd would be required. Also do to the complexity and compatibility of ABS systems makes swapping them a moot point.
Yikes on the single flare brake lines. Now a days lots of stuff have the metric ISO flares (GM likes them on their ABS controller). You only can use single flares on some equipment hydraulic lines with JIC fittings.
Yikes on the single flare brake lines. Now a days lots of stuff have the metric ISO flares (GM likes them on their ABS controller). You only can use single flares on some equipment hydraulic lines with JIC fittings.
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