Front end help !!!!!
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Front end help !!!!!
I put this post on the 'heavy duty forum' and never got a reply, so I thought I would try y'all here cuz you guys seem a lot smarter than those guys.
I have a '99 250SD 2WD w/7.3/crew/longbed, 6637 mod. This truck has had front end damage from some time in it's past where the frame was bent and both front I-beams were also bent. The vehicle had a 4 plus negative camber problem. I have had the frame straightened out and the I-beams replaced by the body shop and when I took it to the front end shop to get the alignment, I still ave a 4 plus negative camber situation. The front end shop here is the best in the area and they are not sure as to exactly what is causing this situation. They are tying to find some specs that they can measure to find the cause rather than just start replacing parts. Is there some type of diagram or spec sheet somewhere that we can access for measurements to diagnose this situation ??
I'm hoping that maybe someone can point me in the right direction, or if anyone in the Charlotte,NC area might have a similar truck that we can compare to. ANY help would be gladly appreciated.
Danny
I have a '99 250SD 2WD w/7.3/crew/longbed, 6637 mod. This truck has had front end damage from some time in it's past where the frame was bent and both front I-beams were also bent. The vehicle had a 4 plus negative camber problem. I have had the frame straightened out and the I-beams replaced by the body shop and when I took it to the front end shop to get the alignment, I still ave a 4 plus negative camber situation. The front end shop here is the best in the area and they are not sure as to exactly what is causing this situation. They are tying to find some specs that they can measure to find the cause rather than just start replacing parts. Is there some type of diagram or spec sheet somewhere that we can access for measurements to diagnose this situation ??
I'm hoping that maybe someone can point me in the right direction, or if anyone in the Charlotte,NC area might have a similar truck that we can compare to. ANY help would be gladly appreciated.
Danny
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From: Florence,SC
do you know that the ibeams were replaced or did someone say that. if so i would takeit back to theframe shop. they should have all the specs there. if the body shop did the pulling then i would definitely go to a frame shop, given the skill level of the body shop. which side has the negative camber or is it both?
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I now have it at the frame shop and I know the I-beams were replaced because I brought them to the guys at the body shop. The frame shop ordered in two new I-beams and pchecked the replaced I-beams against the new and said that the I-beams are good. I also replaced the coil springs with new "L" springs ( as the code on the sticker calls for). They can see the camber problem and we know that the crossmember still needs a small amount of adjustment that the body shop didn't quite get straightened all the way, but am scratching our heads to see what else could still be throwing the geometry of the front end off so much. It seems that if we would put a 2" spacer ( there is only the small plastic-type holder there now) under the front coils it would push the A-frames down to where the spindles would come into close to correct alignment. I have the truck at Carrol Alignment here in Charlotte and they have the reputation for being the best in the area and are trying to find out what the "problem" is so we can finally get it fixed right, instead of trying to cure the symptons like everyone eelse has done so far.
I really appreciate all the insight y'all can offer.
Danny
I really appreciate all the insight y'all can offer.
Danny
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From: Silver Lake Dunes, MI
did the new I-beams come with steering knuckles? they could be bent, ball joints could be wasted. 4 degrees is a long ways and will not be adjusted with the upper camber/caster bushings as i am sure they have told you. But if you can get it near 2 negative then the bushings may bring it in. does the truck sit level?
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The ball joints are all new, I am told that the stering knuckles look undamaged( I got the whole assy with the I -beams). The truck looks like it's going downhill with the front definitely lower than the rear by ( I am guessing) at least 6 inches.
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From: Reno nv
My shop manuals says 4 degree POSitive is standard for the truck, BUT, also says that if the sides get switched, the values go the opposite way. the factory adjuster should be only on the right hand side. if it is on the left hand side, IT WILL BE A NEGATIVE CASTER.
the manual also says that there ARE LH adjusters that work backwards installed on the RIGHT side
should be a ten minute process to check by pulling and swapping one side to the other.
the manual also says that there ARE LH adjusters that work backwards installed on the RIGHT side
should be a ten minute process to check by pulling and swapping one side to the other.
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From: Florence,SC
adjustment bushings can be reversed if they are not factory. a 1 degree is bushing is a 1 degree bushing either side depending on where it is positioned within a 360 degree circle.
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Postmaster
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From: Florence,SC
how much front end damage was there? where did you get the spring code from? in the door? did the doors happen to be replaced?
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From: Silver Lake Dunes, MI
i would check your manual again. 4 degrees camber would destroy tires quickly. its probably says 4 caster not camber. camber is probably right around .5 positive to 0 degrees. the adjustment bushings are on both left and right sides. and for the 2wd are availible up to 2.5 degree change from napa.
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From: Damon (South East Texas)
Was there a difference in the free length of the springs before installation? Are the new springs compressed more when installed? 6" is a lot of difference, front-to-back. Riding height seems to be way off. I fabbed spacers under the spring pads on an '82 Ford I had to corrrect the riding height and allow for larger tires.
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Caster/camber.......The truck looks like it has an extra 2000# in the engine compartment. When looking at it from the front the top of the tires are tilted inward substantially at the top. If I put a floor jack under the center cross-member and start raising, as the weight comes off of the axles, naturally the tires straighten out to straight up and down, which is why I think that somewhere along the line something got left out or changed when 'whoever' was doing the original repairs. The sticker that I got the spring code from was the sticker on the post between the doors with the VIN and 03/99 build date on it.
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I believe that the old springs were a little 'tired' as wen I took the old ones out I had to raise another 1 1/2" to get the new in. They both were the same length standing side by side on the floor.
Danny
Danny
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From: Florence,SC
just because they are the same length. does not mean same load carrying abilities. i dont see how anything would be left out. the spring would not stay in unless everything was there. check back wher`ever you bought the springs, make sure the code is "L" and make sure they are for diesel engine and not gas.
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From: Silver Lake Dunes, MI
yeah its sounding like you have the wrong springs in there. are both side equal as far as how it looks? To make this clear the top of the tire is tilted inward right? if so yes that is negative camber.
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Originally Posted by tjbeggs
yeah its sounding like you have the wrong springs in there. are both side equal as far as how it looks? To make this clear the top of the tire is tilted inward right? if so yes that is negative camber.