I'll try to keep this shorter than it would be otherwise since it's more on the school topic than money. My wife is also a teacher. Certainly there are bad teachers. You'll find incompetent people in every profession. It's not as simple as blaming the teachers. Blame the crushing bureaucracy that's been forced on them by government, school boards, superintendents and principals. Some of the latter don't even have any practical classroom experience, so you know they're just BURSTING with useful suggestions. Blame the fleet of "specialists" the schools are forced to maintain who pop in every few weeks to foist the latest educational fad on top of everything else the teachers already have to keep track of.

But why this horrible, micromanaging, all-encompassy bureaucracy? How did it ever develop? However misguided it may be, it's what grew out of the education system's response to dropping grades and increasing discipline problems. Teachers barely have time to teach anymore because they're busy picking up the slack for bad parents. Unfortunately they no longer have any real authority or ability to hand out any sort of meaningful punishment. Students who have good, involved parents almost always do better. Too bad the good ones still suffer because the whole system is being dragged down by the other parents who just don't give a crap and teach their kids to be the same way.

You'd be amazed how much individual babysitting these kids need. My wife hears again and again from older teachers (many of whom are retiring early) that it didn't used to be like this. That they couldn't do it if they were early on in their careers like she is.

Okay, that got a little long but it's still much much shorter than it could have been.

 

This is curious. Does working in an auto dealership give you insight into what these so-called afluent people have in IRAs, stocks, 401Ks, properties and other retirement investments? I don't believe any dealership asks for this information nor do they have a right to. Are these customers revealing their portfolios to you?

 

No Ken- simply the nature and extent of debt and the timeliness of their payments. Credit statements and reports are loaded only on the debt side- you never see the asset side of the equation. It is fair to say that we have a pretty clear picture of the financial situation though. Doesn't take a genius to see if someone's pushing the financial envelope- just need to know where to look.

 

Just to pop an answer in here after Polarbear, (he answered the question anyway) but for us, when we bought our house, and applied for a line of credit before that, I was asked for my 3 most recent paystubs, last year's tax return, an estimation of assets, and a list of all outstanding debts.

Bringing your liquid assets to the table gets you approved for more whether you need it or not. But come in with just a paystub, you might end up with the bare minimum, if at all, depending on what else you owe money on.

Mostly it's for a debt servicing ratio, as it's called I think. Our old neighbour worked in the collections department for Royal Bank, she helped us out quite a bit in what to bring to a bank, without bringing too much.

Edit
Dangit, forgot to include my perspective on the actual topic at hand.

My wife and I are now 31. As I went through my apprenticeship, my wife was making the money that I make now. But we've had a minor wage swap, if you will. She's now making what I used to make a year ago, but now, after my half of the monthly payments, I'm banking nearly $2000 every month. Well, not quite banking, more like disposable income that I sometimes choose to spend on tools, or leave in the bank.

But you're right about turning 30 and realizing that money doesn't grow on trees. I've actually known that for quite some time, since I was a kid in fact. But it's only recently that I've understood the scope of the situation.

Speaking with a financial advisor, he suggested I take x amount of money, put it into an rrsp (Canadian 401K) and wait till March or April to get a tax refund of about 7 or 8 THOUSAND dollars. Mind you, that refund would be dependant on me locking away $20,000 not to be touched until I retire. But then with that refund there was other options ie stock market, money market, mutual funds again, ... Ultimately, what he was getting at was "Make your money work for you". And the $8,000 refund, which I was quite stunned at, he just made a comment like "It's how the rich get richer". It's still your money that you lock away, but using the laws in your favour, taking every advantage possible, not even looking for loopholes, but you're still growing your net worth.

I probably won't need to keep a tax lawyer or tax accountant on retainer like some insanely wealthy individuals, but acting on the bare minimum is still money ahead of someone who knows, but does nothing.

I have a plan for my wife and I. If it weren't for our anniversary vacation coming up, I'd have that plan in motion already. Anyway, I've written down all those book titles posted on the first page, and I'll be taking them with me on vacation. Then I'll see what I learn from them.

Getting late, getting tired, can't remember what else I wanted to post, so, see you guys tomorrow.

 

On a similar topic to this...

I think a "hard work" ethic would also be something good implemented, admittedly it has to be done by parents, and kids are, well kids, and they should enjoy thier childhood, but learning the benefits of hard work is a brilliant gift to have.
Having said that - I doubt many of the users here would have a problem with this concept.

Maybe I should join Prius Enthusiasts and start preaching

 

You are seeing folks who are there to put themselves into further into debt. Isn't that exactly what financing a vehicle is? So, naturally a dealership is going to see a greater percentage of gotta have it, instant gratification, give-me-my-toys people than an investment advisor would. You are not seeing the afluent who aren't spending on new vehicles. Correct? Its a very one-sided view. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of people who mismange their money. What I am implying is your statement was a classic example of a class-envy/class-warfare type of statement. Look at those rich people teaching their children to get in debt!

I'd wager there's just as high (or higher) percentage of non-afluent people who mismanage their money, but are doing it at used-car dealerships paying 20% interest. Or worse, pawning their vehicles at 30% annual interest with 12 months compounded EACH month.

 

I would tend to agree... the school I went to - the kids parents didn't mind spending money - BUT the parents always spent within thier means.
(My dad drove a bashed up 76 Landcruiser, and my Mom a 88 Mazda 323 - collectively worth about 1/5th of my annual education cost

The normal car there was a an XJ Jaguar, or SL Mercedes - taste in automotive seemed far more important than actual dollar value (one parent only had a 63 Citroen DS).

I have seen a trend, and this is more from parents who sent thier kids to what I would refer to as "middle of the road" private schools - and they seem to follow what Ernie is saying. Racking up debt very quick, but conversly they also appear to be sending thier kids to a private school for the sake of sending them to a private school - rather than sending them to a private school to give thier childeren the best education possible.
They are the people that jumped on the SUV craze, buy from large stores, live in thier modular home in thier lovely housing estate with man made lakes etc...

And Ken, you are pretty much spot on with regard to non-affluent people - only I would add - its on thier multiple credit card debt.

 

You're telling that to a guy who's last two King Ranches went out the door for a good sum more than the neighbors BMW. No, I didn't finance them, so get over the class envy thing.. What I am saying is there's a strong culture out there of "gotta have now" and "keeping up/ahead of the Jones's."

That's possible- I wouldn't have much of a reference point there. I do know the National savings rate is a negative .3%. The "rich" out here generally live a little further out on acreage. Remember, in The Millionaire next Door"- there's 10 times as many people making a million or more than there are people worth a million or more.

 

Out of my two oldest kids, one manages his money wisely while the other, who is married, lives from paycheck to paycheck. Both she and her hubby work for FedEx and make dang good money only to have over-extended themselves.

My girlfriends two kids, ages 30 and 24 spend money like there is no tomorrow and the youngest claims she will make 60k this year but had to borrow money from her mom just a week ago.

Now I have an 8 year old son at home who has Asperger's Disorder and he is in the process of learning how to recognize coins and adding them in his math class. That he can do but to him.....a quarter in one hand is just as valuable to him as a 10 dollar bill in the other. He has no concept of money as far as spending but I'm sure as he ages he will learn about it.

 

I agree. Going to a public school as well, I know that they are doing a good fine job. The kids that dont do good or dont learn anything are the ones that arent making a efford to learn it! It's not the teachers or the fact the it is a public school. All teachers have to be certified to teach. They know what they are doing, some kids just dont listen. The same as in a private school. Except if your grades fall, you are kicked out and told to find a education somewhere else.

It has not destroyed the educational system. If it did kids would all be in private schools. I think that you have the right to say that the public schools are not doing a good job cause that is your opinion. But to say that parents that have public school kids don't care about their childs education it totaly out of line! And to say that public schools dont do anything for special needs kids is also out of line. I have a old sister who has autism and ADHD and she is doing GREAT in schools. The teahcers help her, she has a aid that goes with her to keep her on her studies, but the public school is doing fine.

Remeber that the public schools aren't getting money handed to them in a $2000 dollar check per student. They get it outta taxis and they do the best they can with what they have.

-Jen.

 

Jen...

I didn't say parents of kids in public schools don't care about their children.

Thank you for your reply; it helps to support my position in this matter.

 

I got lost here somewhere.

 

Nevermind... not worth it.

 

You guys rock!...(heehee)......"Bigrigfixer".....definitely do the "book" thing......All of the titles are great, but I would definitely start with "The Automatic Millionaire" by David Bach, if for no other reason than it's sort of a "survey" book on the whole money managing thing, it's easy to read, you'll fly through it, and it will get your appetite "whetted" for the other stuff.

I guess, "Polarbear" that I gathered from one of your posts the "negative" issue of children of rich parents (wealthy, whatever) seeing their parents driving around in expensive cars and having boats, big homes etc........and having a deleterious effect on the kids who won't have near as much money early in their "careers", but wanting all the stuff the parents had. Again, if the parents are having these nice things WITHOUT incurring huge debt, and are socking away tons of money, then....is it a bad thing?.....Does your implied statement mean that someone with no matter how much money should deny themselves and their family of "nice" things (a Mercedes, and Escalade, a Fountain race boat, a 6000 sq foot house) and live "below" their means because their kids might get too screwed up and demanding?.......I don't think so......

Steve

 

Just a quiet reminder though...

Look at all those books with perspective. Why are they writing it?
It sure as hell ain't to get YOU rich - its to line thier own pocket. That isn't saying that they don't offer some good advice, BUT bear in mind they couldn't give a hoot if it sends you broke. Even financial advisors on pro-rata commision won't care overly much if your life savings goes out the window when they drive home in thier BMW...

My few rules when it comes to financial advice.
1. Listen to yourself first and foremost, take everything else as advice. Even if you make a mistake, it was YOU that made the mistake, not someone acting on your behalf.
2. There is NO get rich quick scheme EVER. Making huge amounts of money is easy (almost too easy), but it isn't going to happen overnight, or without loosing some money here or there. Steer clear of anyone that paints a picture of you choosing which Ferrari you would like to drive each day after a year.
3. The Finance sector is filled with more money hungry, sell thier grandma for $5 types than any other industey (even lawyers) - watch out for them.
4. Only ever invest money you are prepared to loose. Things happen, the world enters depression, war breaks out, whatever - but markets are anything but stable, and sometimes you are going to take a loss.
5. Diversify. From the above statment, having $20million in mining stocks ain't that great if resource prices go down. If you are starting out and only have a few thousand to invest, research some good managed funds. Prehaps try a property fund, a blue-chip fund, and throw a couple of thousand in a small company fund too.
6. Be prepared to read. A great tool can be the world wide web, read as many sites as you can, but keep in mind what I said at the top of this post...
7. Let someone else make a profit here or there. A lot of people are too greedy, and if a stock price rockets from $20 to $50 a lot of people will think "What if it goes to $100?" - damn it, let other people think that, you have just more than doubled your money - get out while the going is good, and have no regrets if it does go to $100. It could have equally gone down to $5 the next day, and you have still made a substantial amount of money.
8. Financial markets are nothing more than elaborate ways of reflecting peoples emotions. Capitalise on it, buy when others are selling, sell when others are buying. For example when 9/11 happened, the markets all went down. Great time to buy in my opinion.
9. Don't think about tomorrow. Think about 10years time.
10. Be extremely cynical of anyones "hot tips" - see point #1

I personally am against short-term investing (day-trading), but thats purely because I don't have the time to do all the research. I would abstain from doing it though if you are new to investing for at least the first couple of years - you really need to learn he ropes first, and you can loose money hideously quickly doing day-trading if you don't know what you are doing.



Sorry, I am extremely cynical about anyone in the finance, real estate, whatever finance industry (thats not to say there aren't good people out there - but it can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack).
The only person that I ever take advice from is my parents, and our family accountant in a small country town that has been doing our families books for about 30 years.

Above all good luck
Making money isn't hard by any means - in fact its very easy, all it takes is a measured long-term approach.