Tbi?
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Elder User
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From: Boise, ID
Tbi?
Ok, I have a very mild 390, RV cam, and 4 barrel. I think that I am going to bore and stroke it using one of survivals stroker kits. I am looking at around 421 cubes. Would Holley Commander TBI help my mpg at all? Worth the big bucks? I think I am going to get a set of aluminum heads, adjustables, and I'm not sure what cam yet (any ideas?) I am going to pick up an edelbrock perform rpm intake, and probably headers with a 3" collecter, and run 3" dual glasspacks. The motor is a C6 right now. But I might end up swapping in a ZF, or a NP435. Whew.. any ideas? Should I just build my own fuel injection manifold?
TIA
Jake
TIA
Jake
Post Fiend
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From: Iowa
First of all, please dont just go with an RV cam. There's so much more to it than that. Look for something good from Comp or Crane, matched to what you want to do.
Now that that's out of the way, yes, a fuel injection system will help your mileage. I have the 700cfm Holley Commander 950 TBI system on my 390. I was getting over 15mpg out of it on trips. I think the way to go is MPFI instead of TBI for optimum efficiency though. I'd get Holley's universal system and modify a single plane intake for it if I had it to do again.
Now that that's out of the way, yes, a fuel injection system will help your mileage. I have the 700cfm Holley Commander 950 TBI system on my 390. I was getting over 15mpg out of it on trips. I think the way to go is MPFI instead of TBI for optimum efficiency though. I'd get Holley's universal system and modify a single plane intake for it if I had it to do again.
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From: Boise, ID
How tuff is doing MPFI on a single plane. What type of single plane mani? I don't have much skills with that stuff. But I could get myself on the tools and hardware to do the work. Only if I had some insight.
What time of cam should I look into getting? What kind of power should I expect?
What time of cam should I look into getting? What kind of power should I expect?
Last edited by jmono; Oct 24, 2006 at 10:39 PM.
Post Fiend
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From: Iowa
What single plane intake? You have a few options here.
1. Edelbrock Streetmaster. You'd need to find one used, as they're no longer in production.
2. Edelbrock Victor FE. They do have one for EFI; I haven't looked too far into it though. PN 29365.
3. Dove 1x4 single plane. Probably the best performing of the bunch, price unknown to me at the moment. See here: http://www.doveengineparts.com/
Power all depends on head flow, compression, displacement, and cam. It's too early to say right now. How much power are you looking for?
Cam depends largely on compression, displacement, your power goals for the motor, and how "streetable" you want the motor to be. Like I said above, too early to recommend one.
1. Edelbrock Streetmaster. You'd need to find one used, as they're no longer in production.
2. Edelbrock Victor FE. They do have one for EFI; I haven't looked too far into it though. PN 29365.
3. Dove 1x4 single plane. Probably the best performing of the bunch, price unknown to me at the moment. See here: http://www.doveengineparts.com/
Power all depends on head flow, compression, displacement, and cam. It's too early to say right now. How much power are you looking for?
Cam depends largely on compression, displacement, your power goals for the motor, and how "streetable" you want the motor to be. Like I said above, too early to recommend one.
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I want to get as much power as possible. It is going to be an on road/offroad vehicle. Will be used for a little bit of everything. Towing, camping, muddin, <insert random word or phrase here>. What compression do you think would be the best. I want to get aluminum or highly ported heads with bigger valves? The dispacement will be between 410 and 421. Cam I still dont know. I think I might go with the Edelbrock Victor FE. But what injectors and stuff? Then should I look towards the universal stuff from holley?
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From: Iowa
I would lean toward the universal kit from Holley. They give you the injector bungs, wiring harness, etc, that you need to get it working. Takes the guesswork out of it. You just need to weld the injector bungs into the intake. See here: http://www.holley.com/534-183.asp
You can download and view instructions for that kit from Holley. Kind of helps to see what you're getting into before you buy.
Compression depends on fuel octane. Are you planning on running pump gas, race gas, E85, or something else?
Unless E85 is readily available in your area (105 octane and cheaper than gasoline), I'd shoot for about 9.5:1 compression, and a fairly sane camshaft, probably something in the 275 to 290 degree range. Let the power come from ported heads, the single plane intake, and headers. Let the stroker kit and precise fuel delivery from the fuel injection take care of your torque. I'd go with well ported stock iron heads with CJ valves. Why spend more money than you need to?
You can download and view instructions for that kit from Holley. Kind of helps to see what you're getting into before you buy.
Compression depends on fuel octane. Are you planning on running pump gas, race gas, E85, or something else?
Unless E85 is readily available in your area (105 octane and cheaper than gasoline), I'd shoot for about 9.5:1 compression, and a fairly sane camshaft, probably something in the 275 to 290 degree range. Let the power come from ported heads, the single plane intake, and headers. Let the stroker kit and precise fuel delivery from the fuel injection take care of your torque. I'd go with well ported stock iron heads with CJ valves. Why spend more money than you need to?
Last edited by rusty70f100; Oct 25, 2006 at 03:20 PM.
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From: Boise, ID
Well I emailed edelbock and it turns out that their FE fuelinjection wont be out til next year...
"The FE is not currently on the web-site but will be available under two
part numbers #29365 or with fuel rails #29366 and with a dominator flange
#29375 or #29376 with fuel rails. These parts will not be available until
early next year."
I may just wait til then. Isn't the Victor stye intake more of a race intake?
"The FE is not currently on the web-site but will be available under two
part numbers #29365 or with fuel rails #29366 and with a dominator flange
#29375 or #29376 with fuel rails. These parts will not be available until
early next year."
I may just wait til then. Isn't the Victor stye intake more of a race intake?
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Post Fiend
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From: Iowa
Yes, the Victor, when used with a carburetor, is more of a race intake. However, it would be very streetable when used with fuel injection. You would not have to worry at all about the fuel falling out of mixture at low speeds.
There's nothing at all wrong with waiting. It gives you time to get the motor perfect. Then worry about the fuel injection when the time comes.
There's nothing at all wrong with waiting. It gives you time to get the motor perfect. Then worry about the fuel injection when the time comes.
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From: Boise, ID
Yeah.. So here is what I have. Correct me if I'm wrong, and add something if you think its needed.
Ported Heads w/ CJ valves
Hedman Headers w/ 3" collectors (if they fit between the frame)
Dual 3" glasspacks
4.250 crank
Probe and Diamond pistons (flat tops?)
Not sure what rod
Victor manifold (when it comes out) w/fuel rail.
Holley Electric Fuel pump
Chromoly pushrods
adjustable rockers
Cam (not sure what kind still)
Commander 950 Universal MPFI Kit
Bore (.030-.060)
Maybe after that, turbo?
Thats what I am thinking so far.. I may be forgeting something.
Edit Stroker Kit WILL be purchased from Survival Motorsports.
http://www.survivalmotorsports.com/FEparts2.html
Ported Heads w/ CJ valves
Hedman Headers w/ 3" collectors (if they fit between the frame)
Dual 3" glasspacks
4.250 crank
Probe and Diamond pistons (flat tops?)
Not sure what rod
Victor manifold (when it comes out) w/fuel rail.
Holley Electric Fuel pump
Chromoly pushrods
adjustable rockers
Cam (not sure what kind still)
Commander 950 Universal MPFI Kit
Bore (.030-.060)
Maybe after that, turbo?
Thats what I am thinking so far.. I may be forgeting something.
Edit Stroker Kit WILL be purchased from Survival Motorsports.
http://www.survivalmotorsports.com/FEparts2.html
Last edited by jmono; Oct 25, 2006 at 07:25 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
I looked up the specs on the Diamond pistons included in that kit. Using Diamond #09024080 pistons, you'd have about 9.9:1 compression. Using their other flat tops, it's closer to 11:1. It'd be sure to talk to them before getting the kit, to make sure you're getting the dished pistons.
The 4.250" stroker kit will give a 390 with a 4.080" bore 444.5 cubic inches of displacement.
And yes, of course you're forgetting something! Everybody does at this point. This is why you're on here; the more eyes that read it the better.
Initially, I think the Crane 340321 cam would work good. This is a solid lifter cam, and you'd have to periodically adjust valves. If this is objectionable let me know and I can recommend a hydraulic. Or, since you're spending so much already, I could recommend a roller. Let me know.
Initial DD2k results:
With the 9.89:1 compression, 340321 solid lifter cam, in the 444ci motor, you would get 482hp @ 5500rpm, and 511ft-lbs @ 4500rpm. And if you figure up the dynamic compression ratio, it should run on regular pump gas.
The 4.250" stroker kit will give a 390 with a 4.080" bore 444.5 cubic inches of displacement.
And yes, of course you're forgetting something! Everybody does at this point. This is why you're on here; the more eyes that read it the better.
Initially, I think the Crane 340321 cam would work good. This is a solid lifter cam, and you'd have to periodically adjust valves. If this is objectionable let me know and I can recommend a hydraulic. Or, since you're spending so much already, I could recommend a roller. Let me know.
Initial DD2k results:
With the 9.89:1 compression, 340321 solid lifter cam, in the 444ci motor, you would get 482hp @ 5500rpm, and 511ft-lbs @ 4500rpm. And if you figure up the dynamic compression ratio, it should run on regular pump gas.
OUCH!