>I wrap the harness with sections of the black "Spiral Cable
>Wrap" Radio Shack #278-1638. I wish I could find it in bulk
>on a spool but all I can find locally is white.

Torque1st,

I realize you'd probably prefer a local source but you can order the black, weather-resistant spiral wrap (Panduit - good quality stuff) from Newark Electronics (www.newark.com), part number 78F498 at about $85 for 100 feet. MCM electronics (www.mcmelectronics.com) has the same stuff (part number 831-445) for about $58 for 100 feet.

 

I haven't gotten to any of the wiring on my truck yet but I have already been picked on for suggesting I MIGHT want to use a better grade of wire (SLX) and I MIGHT want to do it from scratch. ;-)

I know this is not an option for most folks but I' going with a wire-from-scratch harness and doing all the wiring planning (color codes, gages, connectors, etc.) before putting anything electrical back on the truck - at least in hard-to-get-at places. One trick we use at work is to put loooonnnnngggg pigtails on stuff that's a pain to get at before we install it in the console. After installation, it's fairly easy to run the pigtails as needed to their termination point. The theory is that the exta wire we end up cutting off is really cheap compared to the manpower you spend with both arms twisted around your head while you hang by your feet from the ceiling trying to make connections to the instrument. The other advantage is that you can always cut the pigtails to the exact length once you route them to an accessible point in the console but it's really hard to "cut them longer" after you mess up the first set of connections on the instrument because it's so darned hard to reach. We used to have a tech who kept saying "I keep cutting an inch off and they're still too short."

Anyway, I won't be getting to the wiring for some time but I will let you know how it goes including pics, etc.

 

Earl

I know you researched this issue some. Do you still have the different wire grades handy? There are certainly some circuits where it would definitely be prudent to run the good stuff. You can definitely tell the difference in quality when you solder and the insulation disappears.

I am really curious what it is going to cost you to scratch wire if that's what you end up doing. I know your cost records will be accurate so I am actually hoping you do it with correct colors. It will be interesting to hear the final tally.

'fenders

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-Nov-02 AT 04:46 PM (EST)]>I know you researched this issue some. Do you still have
>the different wire grades handy? There are certainly some
>circuits where it would definitely be prudent to run the
>good stuff. You can definitely tell the difference in
>quality when you solder and the insulation disappears.
>
>I am really curious what it is going to cost you to scratch
>wire if that's what you end up doing. I know your cost
>records will be accurate so I am actually hoping you do it
>with correct colors. It will be interesting to hear the
>final tally.

The wire grades are really insulation grades - the copper inside is pretty much the same with minor variations. The main types I've found are:

Thermoplastic
--------------------------
GPT - General Purpose Thermoplastic rated at 176°F/80°C
HDT - Heavy Duty Thermoplastic rated at 176°F/80°C
TWP - Thin-wall Thermoplastic rated at 185°F/85°C
UTP - Ultra-Thin-wall Thermoplastic rated at 185°F/85°C

PVC
--------------------------
PVC - Polyvinyl Chloride rated at 221°F/105°C

Cross-Linked Polyethylene
--------------------------
GXL - General Purpose Crossed-linked Polyethylene rated at 257°F/125°C
SXL - Special Purpose Crossed-linked Polyethylene rated at 257°F/125°C
UXL - Ultra-Thin Wall Crossed-linked Polyethylene rated at 257°F/125°C

Some of the manufacturers have their own versions of these types that vary in rating by about 5 degrees but are essentially the same except for the ink printing on the wire.

All the pre-made harnesses I've checked so far use thermoplastic. I've called and e-mailed several of the vendors and asked their tech folks to be sure I got the right answer. I haven't finished with this work yet - still have to contact Ron Francis and a few others.

The main problem with using anything but thermoplastic is that you need a minimum of 17 different color/stripe/gage combinations (for my truck, at least). Getting the higher temperature wire (GXL/SXL/UXL) in a specific color/stripe/gage combination requires a minimum order that's enough for about 10 to 20 wiring harnesses. I don't think I can manage to justify that for one truck. I may contact some of the folks I know at Ford and see if I can buy/scavenge some SXL wire from their assembly system.

I'd really like to use SXL on the whole truck so I never have to worry about temperature ratings. That's probably overkill but it would be nice. I will certainly use SXL under the hood and maybe the dash. Heres a nice thread about why it's good not to skimp on wire quality to save money. Note the trivial cost difference in the wire grades once you get past the minimum order issue. Be sure to read down four or five replies to the cost comparison. Sorry, couldn't get the link to be automatic - ya gotta copy it from this message and paste it in your browser's address window but it's worth it.

tlcc2000.dyndns.org/Automotive/95FordContourWiringFlatRateTechWebForums20020410.h tml

In an earlier post I suggested I might buy the minimum order of SXL in the variuos color/stripe/gage combinations and sell (at cost plus shipping) shorter lengths to other FTE folks who want the higher temperature rating. I didn't get much response to that.

 

George

I will check out the thread you suggest. Some touchy-feely research is what you really need to add to all of this research you have done. I know you like to check stuff out. Actually so do I. You should get a bit of the high grade wire you are talkng about and compare it to some of the other less expensive options in the real world. Strip it, solder it, lay it on an exhaust manifold, chaff it, etc. I would be happy to mail you some samples from a few sources too if you don't already have it. Left over wire from my $300 harness, Belden wire etc. I have found Belden wire and my harness to be far superior to some of the cheap stuff I had laying around the garage. You can tell just by stripping and heating it up that the Haywire harness and the Belden wire are lightyears better than department store wire.

If you make your own, you will also be able to go up a guage where the kit makers match OEM in most cases. I do think you are overkilling your harness for your needs. I however, am doing the same thing as we speak. They are our trucks to over engineer as we see fit.

One last point. I dropped by a friends today who is rewiring a *****'s. I suggested he buy a $100 Haywire fuseblock with no wiring included. We are scratch wiring it. Pretty hypocritical of me huh? It is slick with relays built in etc. I think you would really like it. Add your own wiring to your standard and your set. I know I teased you about scratch wiring. One thing you have to realize is I have Power windows, antennae, CD player, AC. Relays galore. We aren't talking about the same thing here. I would grow old scratch wiring my truck. Earl doesn't have all that noise. Earl is equipped like the ****** Jeep.

Dewayne

 

>Some touchy-feely research is what you really need to add to
>all of this research you have done. I know you like to check
>stuff out. Actually so do I. You should get a bit of the high
>grade wire you are talkng about and compare it to some of the
>other less expensive options in the real world. Strip it,
>solder it, lay it on an exhaust manifold, chaff it, etc.

You're right about the importance of touchy-feely stuff. I work with dozens of different grades of Belden, Alpha, American Wire, Omega, etc. samples at work. Everything from Teflon (bitch to work with) to thermoplastic (melts in your hand, don't need a soldering iron) to Nextel glass braid 1000 C thermocouple wire.

I did get some pieces of various automotive grades from the local U-Bang-Your-Knucles junkyard. The SXL is a lot more like the teflon in terms of heat resistance during soldering than the PVC stuff. That agrees with the temperature ratings I've seen. TXL is more flexible than either GXL or SXL but it's harder to find and a little more expensive. I also like the abrasion resistance of the *XL types better than the thermoplastic or PVC. The thicker insulation on the SXL grade (compared to the TXL) is the reason I'm leaning that way.

I haven't laid a piece on a manifold but it's already apparent from playing around that the *XL grades are far more temperature resistant than either the GPT or PVC grades. That goes right along with their stated ratings.

>If you make your own, you will also be able to go up a guage
>where the kit makers match OEM in most cases. I do think
>you are overkilling your harness for your needs. I however,
>am doing the same thing as we speak. They are our trucks to
>over engineer as we see fit.

You're exactly right. The difference in cost for 14 gage vs. 16 gage is very small. Might as well put the bigger stuff in as long as it doesn't get too hard to bend and handle. Minimizes light dimming and wire heating.

>I know I teased you about scratch wiring. One thing you have to
>realize is I have Power windows, antennae, CD player, AC.
>Relays galore. We aren't talking about the same thing here.
> I would grow old scratch wiring my truck. Earl doesn't
>have all that noise. Earl is equipped like the ****** Jeep.

You still think teasing me will stop me from doing stuff? Once I get a little razz from the peanut gallery it becomes an engineering challenge to show it CAN BE DONE! I still think you wimped out and you COULD have done a scratch wiring job. On the other hand, I'd really like to live to see your machine run.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-Nov-02 AT 10:39 PM (EST)]George

>"You still think teasing me will stop me from doing stuff? Once I >get a little razz from the peanut gallery it becomes an engineering >challenge to show it CAN BE DONE!"

Oh I have known you long enough to not even question that this is true.

> I still think you wimped out and you COULD have done a scratch >wiring job. On the other hand, I'd really like to live to see your >machine run. "

Yes I am quite capable of scratch wiring my truck. And I am also capable of churning my own butter and making soap but I prefer to pick some up on the way home from work.

Even as slow as I wire, I have probably spent enough time talking to you about it that I could have finished it by now. When I got done I would have 7 miles of spare wire because all the circuits need to be different colors,guages etc. If I paid myself eleven cents an hour and depreciate out the clothes I am wearing while doing it, we would probably be about even. But thats not the point is it? You're an engineer!

My biggest concern is actually the terminal ends. All the easy sources sell junk. I haven't seen a crimp connector yet that I am comfortable with for the long term in a harsh environment. (underhood or chassis in the Midwest). I will solder the glovebox light wiring. Undoubtedly it's your bad influence starting to rub off.

'fenders

 

George

I checked out the links. I believe I have a maximum of 6 feet of wire exposed to temperatures potentially in the max range of thermoplastic so it will be easy to monitor. I am curious on the durability issues far more than heat. I am convinced you can take steps to completely eliminate the heat issue. First of all don't route wire across the motor. Except for my coil and distributor, I have done that. You can also use the high temp foil conduit (which looks like crap), and run it inside split loom. My workmanship is sufficient to make abrasion issues unlikely. What the wire does in five years is far more important to me. If it gets brittle and falls off, now you have a real issue.

Have you heard any complaints about the thermoplastic prefabbed kits failing. I have not. Problem with this one is if you have total failure. The evidence will likely burn up enough to cast doubt on the actual cause.

'fenders

 

>What the wire does in five years is far more important to me.
>If it gets brittle and falls off, now you have a real issue.
>
>Have you heard any complaints about the thermoplastic
>prefabbed kits failing. I have not.

Haven't heard anything about the prefabbed stuff failing in autos although at work we've had some PVC "go away" as the techs like to say after long-term exposure to moderate temps. Teflon is practically indestructible but it's hard to work with and I don't see it advertised for automotive use. It may not be oil or gasoline resistant or may not be recommended for the low end of the automotive temperature range (-40F/-40C). I don't know on that one but you can check.

Still looking for a good connector vendor. I'd prefer USCAR certified sealed connectors so I don't have to worry about corrosioin, vibration, etc. but you run into that minimum order crap again with all the vendors. Oh well, I haven't got anything else to do at 1:00 AM on a Saturday but surf the net looking for the ultimate in automotive electrical connectors.

 

'Fenders, George, ...

... I am also working on my wiring. I have the same brand 'Fenders is using: Haywire. I have the 7-Fuse kit as I have no plan what-so-ever to add any eltric what-so-ever.

I have the fuse block mounted nicely sideways under the dash board on the driver side (basically just under the hole where the original main wire loom went thru the fire wall). So the cable exits to the right and I then have made a nice 180 back to the said hole which I am also using to exit into the engine compartment. So far I have just separated the various cable bundles for the rear lights, the front lights and the stuff that goes to the places in the engine compartment.

I have also bought 35mm2 battery cable and soldered the terminals on both ends (much better than those screw-together versions).

I am sort of stuck now for two reasons:

1. 'Fenders suggestion to use relays for the driving light and high beam. I like the idea and will do that.

2. The connector question. I would like to have connectors to be able to split of the two light bundles (front and rear as mentioned above)in case I want to remove the complete front end (for engine installation or whatever) or remove the whole cab (no idea why I ever would want to do that, but ....). I have searched here in Germany but have not found any really nice water resistant connectors for 6 or 8 wires or so.

All in all I like the Haywire kit. I just think that today (now that the computer has been invented) you should expect more from the manual. The scetches are pretty bad. My 10 year old could do better.

So, to cut things short. I need a source for such connectors. Or did one mention one somewhere above and I have overlooked it ?!?!?

:-X12

 

Kai

George and I are talking about terminals for the end of wires. You could probably get by with connectors that are not completely watertight if you lube the connectors well and check them every year. You could also just skip it for now. In the event you do ever pull the clip. Then just cut the wires and add your connectors at that time. Connectors do add more potential fail points unless you use real good stuff.

Also, did you order a Lokar Nostalgia shifter yet? I did the measuring on the 23 inch handle which actually starts 2-3 inches from the top of the transmission case. There is no way it was going to look good in my truck. Unless your transmission is much lower than mine is. My C-4 does crowd the floor.

'fenders

 

I think I found the connectors I will use when I eventually start wiring. I've looked at Waytek Wire (www.waytekwire.com) before for the GPT and SXL grades of wire and I just noticed they also have watertight connectors available in small lots including the Weather-Pack brand used by automakers on modern cars and trucks.

I went to the manufacturer's web site for the Weather-Pack stuff to get the real information. After reading all the specs it looks like those are just the ticket for our truck cable harnesses. They're available in up to six circuits per connector and are rated at 20 Amps per circuit. They should do the trick for everything outside the starting circuit (where you wouldn't use a connector anyway).

You have to use the Weather-Pack crimping tool (that's normal for specialized connectors) and it runs either $90 or $130 depending on which model you get - Ouch! The connector bodies, terminals, and seals are pretty cheap, though. A four-circuit connector complete is probably about $1.50 including the bodies, terminals, and seals.

I'm very confident in this system since it looks like the manufacturer is going to try to get them USCAR certified. I've used professional crimp-style connectors for many years at work and they perform very well if you follow the instructions. These crimp tools are designed to produce a solid crimp each and every time. That's part of the reason they cost so much. These are not the kind of things you find at Radio Shack or Home Depot.

Kai, is it easy for you to order stuff over the internet like the connectors, terminals, and seals? If not, I could get some of those and send them to you if you can tell me how you'd like to handle the shipping. I'd also be willing to buy the crimp tool (since I know I'll need it anyway) and send it on over for you to use for a while if you'd like. I guess I might even let fenders use it if he asks real nice.

 

Kai and George

I was wrong kai, George is talking about connectors. I was talking about ring terminals and such. I can see where you may want a few connectors but am not sure what you guys are up to exactly. I would like to quick disconnect my light harnesses but thats just about all I had in mind. I soldered everything in and am pretty satisfied with almost all of it.

'fenders

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 25-Nov-02 AT 09:21 AM (EST)]George,

I believe those are the same connectors i have been using ( i recycled mine from a 96 ford), and I must confess, I used a .093 molex crimper on the pins, I ordered the correct pins for the connectors, and when i compared the pins with molex pins, the "crimp" portion was almost identical, when I did the test crimp, it looked great, so i skipped buying their crimper.

Robert

 

>George,
>
>I believe those are the same connectors i have been using (
>i recycled mine from a 96 ford), and I must confess, I used
>a .093 molex crimper on the pins, I ordered the correct pins
>for the connectors, and when i compared the pins with molex
>pins, the "crimp" portion was almost identical, when I did
>the test crimp, it looked great, so i skipped buying their
>crimper.
>
>Robert

Hey Robert, if you get good crimps every time then you're doing fine! fenders and I are corresponding via e-mail off-line with part numbers, etc. if anyone is interested. You can also get a Waytek catalog or look at their web site and go from there.