D0VE-A block question
#1
10-23-2006, 08:01 PM
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D0VE-A block question
I am trying to get some parts together for when i buld my 460 and i was wondering if the D0VE-A blocks are a lot better than the D1VE blocks There is one on ebay right now and it would cost me about $250 to have it shipped out here, how much would a block like that be worth?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...5980381&rd=1,1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...5980381&rd=1,1
#2
10-23-2006, 08:48 PM
Well first off he is full of it, the DOVE-A blocks don't have any thicker cylinder walls than any other casting including the late model castings. No 385 series engine should be bored past .060 with sonic testing personally. All of them will have atleast one thin cylinder wall including the Boss 9 nascar blocks.
the one and only advantage to the DOVE-A block is the thicker main webbing which makes it easier to convert to 4 bolt mains, and some DIVE blocks had the same feature.
Next I hate guys that stuff the CJ tag on whatever junk they are trying to sell for more money than it's worth and this guy is no exception. Yes the CJ blocks were DOVE-A blocks but so were 460 and 429 passenger car engines as well as the SCJ (but all SCJ engines were 4 bolt mains, some CJ were but not all)
Basically if your looking to build more than 800hp then you might want to consider shelling out the money for a DOVE block so you can convert to 4 bolt mains, but then again a 2 bolt D9TE block can handle 900+hp without converting so why? If your thinking about building in that power range buy an aftermarket block, it won't be much more expensive than the stock block after you spend the money to upgrade it otherwise just buy a block you can find locally and use it cause it will work every bit as good as that one on evilbay.
For the info on the cylinder wall thickness here is a link to the "block summit" that was done down at Dave McClains place in MO, we sonic tested 36 blocks that day (or I should say dave sonic tested them the rest of us ate good food and BS'd alot)
http://misn.com/~frd460/blocksummit.html
the one and only advantage to the DOVE-A block is the thicker main webbing which makes it easier to convert to 4 bolt mains, and some DIVE blocks had the same feature.
Next I hate guys that stuff the CJ tag on whatever junk they are trying to sell for more money than it's worth and this guy is no exception. Yes the CJ blocks were DOVE-A blocks but so were 460 and 429 passenger car engines as well as the SCJ (but all SCJ engines were 4 bolt mains, some CJ were but not all)
Basically if your looking to build more than 800hp then you might want to consider shelling out the money for a DOVE block so you can convert to 4 bolt mains, but then again a 2 bolt D9TE block can handle 900+hp without converting so why? If your thinking about building in that power range buy an aftermarket block, it won't be much more expensive than the stock block after you spend the money to upgrade it otherwise just buy a block you can find locally and use it cause it will work every bit as good as that one on evilbay.
For the info on the cylinder wall thickness here is a link to the "block summit" that was done down at Dave McClains place in MO, we sonic tested 36 blocks that day (or I should say dave sonic tested them the rest of us ate good food and BS'd alot)
http://misn.com/~frd460/blocksummit.html
#3
10-23-2006, 10:43 PM
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Thanks for that information thats very help full and im not going to be building that much horse power we have a 480 cubic inch rule and a factory cast iron heads rule, so i will be using my C9VE heads, scott from reincarnation performance says you can get 700hp out of heads like those. Thats what my plan is so i think im just going to check localy what kind of blocks i can find and then maybe just use a 2 bolt main block With a girdle.
#4
10-24-2006, 12:24 AM
Dove-a
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
Well first off he is full of it, the DOVE-A blocks don't have any thicker cylinder walls than any other casting including the late model castings. No 385 series engine should be bored past .060 with sonic testing personally. All of them will have atleast one thin cylinder wall including the Boss 9 nascar blocks.
the one and only advantage to the DOVE-A block is the thicker main webbing which makes it easier to convert to 4 bolt mains, and some DIVE blocks had the same feature.
Next I hate guys that stuff the CJ tag on whatever junk they are trying to sell for more money than it's worth and this guy is no exception. Yes the CJ blocks were DOVE-A blocks but so were 460 and 429 passenger car engines as well as the SCJ (but all SCJ engines were 4 bolt mains, some CJ were but not all)
Basically if your looking to build more than 800hp then you might want to consider shelling out the money for a DOVE block so you can convert to 4 bolt mains, but then again a 2 bolt D9TE block can handle 900+hp without converting so why? If your thinking about building in that power range buy an aftermarket block, it won't be much more expensive than the stock block after you spend the money to upgrade it otherwise just buy a block you can find locally and use it cause it will work every bit as good as that one on evilbay.
For the info on the cylinder wall thickness here is a link to the "block summit" that was done down at Dave McClains place in MO, we sonic tested 36 blocks that day (or I should say dave sonic tested them the rest of us ate good food and BS'd alot)
the one and only advantage to the DOVE-A block is the thicker main webbing which makes it easier to convert to 4 bolt mains, and some DIVE blocks had the same feature.
Next I hate guys that stuff the CJ tag on whatever junk they are trying to sell for more money than it's worth and this guy is no exception. Yes the CJ blocks were DOVE-A blocks but so were 460 and 429 passenger car engines as well as the SCJ (but all SCJ engines were 4 bolt mains, some CJ were but not all)
Basically if your looking to build more than 800hp then you might want to consider shelling out the money for a DOVE block so you can convert to 4 bolt mains, but then again a 2 bolt D9TE block can handle 900+hp without converting so why? If your thinking about building in that power range buy an aftermarket block, it won't be much more expensive than the stock block after you spend the money to upgrade it otherwise just buy a block you can find locally and use it cause it will work every bit as good as that one on evilbay.
For the info on the cylinder wall thickness here is a link to the "block summit" that was done down at Dave McClains place in MO, we sonic tested 36 blocks that day (or I should say dave sonic tested them the rest of us ate good food and BS'd alot)
The DIVE can usually go 4.440. For most applicatons it works quite well. I have built A-460 headed engines with filled DIVE's with CJ caps to 930 HP with no problems.
Last edited by monsterbaby; 10-24-2006 at 01:54 AM.
#5
10-24-2006, 01:47 AM
Gary, did you bother to read that link I posted? I doubt it by your posts so let me help you out, your info is wrong. I just went through the list of the blocks and picked out the DOVE-A casting and here is the highlights, you can check them yourself if you so choose.
#6 take a look at cyl #8 it's not going anywhere near 4.5 without a sleeve
#9 already had to be sleeved at 4.472 bore and still has some thin walls
#10 std bore by .060 over 3 cylinders will be below .100 thick, not even going to make the 4.440 without work let alone anywhere near 4.5
#11 about the same as above
#15 std bore and already has one cyl that is down to .127 thick so how do you propose that will make 4.440 let alone 4.5 or more
#18 4.470 bore and 2 cylinders already well below .100 thick
#20 4.440 bore and already had to have 3 sleeves put in and still has one cyl below .100 left
#21 std and already down to .115 and 3 cylinders will be below .100 at .080 or 4.440 bore so not going anywhere near 4.5
#22 darn good block about one of the best seen yet it still won't go to 4.5 without having cylinders with thinner than .100 bore.
so 9 blocks showed up at the block summit and none will really make 4.5 really well, well I guess that means that we were just unlucky down there and happened to get the only 9 DOVE blocks that don't happen to be any good, is that what your trying to say?
The truth is if you go through that list totally, any block casting number is capable of going to 4.440 and any block casting number including the DOVE-A blocks may not safely be bored .060 over without having issues. If you got $700 out of a DOVE-A block great, glad to hear you found a sucker to pay it, but I would still have to see that sonic sheet to believe that could safely be bored to 4.500 without having to have atleast one cylinder below .100 thick and probably should need sleeved. Now I used .100 but most guys agree you can go down to .095 and get away with it, but FRPP says the min on thier blocks at max bore on a non thrust wall is .120 so what does that tell you?
And just for reference I am running a D9TE 2 bolt block with factory caps and A heads over 900hp without problems and I payed $100 for the entire engine so why would I pay $700 for a block that isn't any better? And before you say it that block has now survived 2 race seasons and is still together.
BTW for what it's worth back in the early 80s the rumor was that the early 69 or C9VE castings were the thick ones and all could safely be bored to 4.440 min an some of them could safely go 4.500, well it's true some can go to 4.5, just like some of the C8VE, and some of the D9TE and some of the D1VE blocks, the whole point of that block summit was to see if there was a certian casting number, foundry, or casting dates made any difference and the fact is it doesn't the DOVE blocks have no more consistancy on thick or thin cyl walls any better or any different than any other block.
#6 take a look at cyl #8 it's not going anywhere near 4.5 without a sleeve
#9 already had to be sleeved at 4.472 bore and still has some thin walls
#10 std bore by .060 over 3 cylinders will be below .100 thick, not even going to make the 4.440 without work let alone anywhere near 4.5
#11 about the same as above
#15 std bore and already has one cyl that is down to .127 thick so how do you propose that will make 4.440 let alone 4.5 or more
#18 4.470 bore and 2 cylinders already well below .100 thick
#20 4.440 bore and already had to have 3 sleeves put in and still has one cyl below .100 left
#21 std and already down to .115 and 3 cylinders will be below .100 at .080 or 4.440 bore so not going anywhere near 4.5
#22 darn good block about one of the best seen yet it still won't go to 4.5 without having cylinders with thinner than .100 bore.
so 9 blocks showed up at the block summit and none will really make 4.5 really well, well I guess that means that we were just unlucky down there and happened to get the only 9 DOVE blocks that don't happen to be any good, is that what your trying to say?
The truth is if you go through that list totally, any block casting number is capable of going to 4.440 and any block casting number including the DOVE-A blocks may not safely be bored .060 over without having issues. If you got $700 out of a DOVE-A block great, glad to hear you found a sucker to pay it, but I would still have to see that sonic sheet to believe that could safely be bored to 4.500 without having to have atleast one cylinder below .100 thick and probably should need sleeved. Now I used .100 but most guys agree you can go down to .095 and get away with it, but FRPP says the min on thier blocks at max bore on a non thrust wall is .120 so what does that tell you?
And just for reference I am running a D9TE 2 bolt block with factory caps and A heads over 900hp without problems and I payed $100 for the entire engine so why would I pay $700 for a block that isn't any better? And before you say it that block has now survived 2 race seasons and is still together.
BTW for what it's worth back in the early 80s the rumor was that the early 69 or C9VE castings were the thick ones and all could safely be bored to 4.440 min an some of them could safely go 4.500, well it's true some can go to 4.5, just like some of the C8VE, and some of the D9TE and some of the D1VE blocks, the whole point of that block summit was to see if there was a certian casting number, foundry, or casting dates made any difference and the fact is it doesn't the DOVE blocks have no more consistancy on thick or thin cyl walls any better or any different than any other block.
Last edited by monsterbaby; 10-24-2006 at 02:03 AM.
#6
10-24-2006, 03:42 PM
No wrong
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
Gary, did you bother to read that link I posted? I doubt it by your posts so let me help you out, your info is wrong. I just went through the list of the blocks and picked out the DOVE-A casting and here is the highlights, you can check them yourself if you so choose.
#6 take a look at cyl #8 it's not going anywhere near 4.5 without a sleeve
#9 already had to be sleeved at 4.472 bore and still has some thin walls
#10 std bore by .060 over 3 cylinders will be below .100 thick, not even going to make the 4.440 without work let alone anywhere near 4.5
#11 about the same as above
#15 std bore and already has one cyl that is down to .127 thick so how do you propose that will make 4.440 let alone 4.5 or more
#18 4.470 bore and 2 cylinders already well below .100 thick
#20 4.440 bore and already had to have 3 sleeves put in and still has one cyl below .100 left
#21 std and already down to .115 and 3 cylinders will be below .100 at .080 or 4.440 bore so not going anywhere near 4.5
#22 darn good block about one of the best seen yet it still won't go to 4.5 without having cylinders with thinner than .100 bore.
so 9 blocks showed up at the block summit and none will really make 4.5 really well, well I guess that means that we were just unlucky down there and happened to get the only 9 DOVE blocks that don't happen to be any good, is that what your trying to say?
The truth is if you go through that list totally, any block casting number is capable of going to 4.440 and any block casting number including the DOVE-A blocks may not safely be bored .060 over without having issues. If you got $700 out of a DOVE-A block great, glad to hear you found a sucker to pay it, but I would still have to see that sonic sheet to believe that could safely be bored to 4.500 without having to have atleast one cylinder below .100 thick and probably should need sleeved. Now I used .100 but most guys agree you can go down to .095 and get away with it, but FRPP says the min on thier blocks at max bore on a non thrust wall is .120 so what does that tell you?
And just for reference I am running a D9TE 2 bolt block with factory caps and A heads over 900hp without problems and I payed $100 for the entire engine so why would I pay $700 for a block that isn't any better? And before you say it that block has now survived 2 race seasons and is still together.
BTW for what it's worth back in the early 80s the rumor was that the early 69 or C9VE castings were the thick ones and all could safely be bored to 4.440 min an some of them could safely go 4.500, well it's true some can go to 4.5, just like some of the C8VE, and some of the D9TE and some of the D1VE blocks, the whole point of that block summit was to see if there was a certian casting number, foundry, or casting dates made any difference and the fact is it doesn't the DOVE blocks have no more consistancy on thick or thin cyl walls any better or any different than any other block.
#6 take a look at cyl #8 it's not going anywhere near 4.5 without a sleeve
#9 already had to be sleeved at 4.472 bore and still has some thin walls
#10 std bore by .060 over 3 cylinders will be below .100 thick, not even going to make the 4.440 without work let alone anywhere near 4.5
#11 about the same as above
#15 std bore and already has one cyl that is down to .127 thick so how do you propose that will make 4.440 let alone 4.5 or more
#18 4.470 bore and 2 cylinders already well below .100 thick
#20 4.440 bore and already had to have 3 sleeves put in and still has one cyl below .100 left
#21 std and already down to .115 and 3 cylinders will be below .100 at .080 or 4.440 bore so not going anywhere near 4.5
#22 darn good block about one of the best seen yet it still won't go to 4.5 without having cylinders with thinner than .100 bore.
so 9 blocks showed up at the block summit and none will really make 4.5 really well, well I guess that means that we were just unlucky down there and happened to get the only 9 DOVE blocks that don't happen to be any good, is that what your trying to say?
The truth is if you go through that list totally, any block casting number is capable of going to 4.440 and any block casting number including the DOVE-A blocks may not safely be bored .060 over without having issues. If you got $700 out of a DOVE-A block great, glad to hear you found a sucker to pay it, but I would still have to see that sonic sheet to believe that could safely be bored to 4.500 without having to have atleast one cylinder below .100 thick and probably should need sleeved. Now I used .100 but most guys agree you can go down to .095 and get away with it, but FRPP says the min on thier blocks at max bore on a non thrust wall is .120 so what does that tell you?
And just for reference I am running a D9TE 2 bolt block with factory caps and A heads over 900hp without problems and I payed $100 for the entire engine so why would I pay $700 for a block that isn't any better? And before you say it that block has now survived 2 race seasons and is still together.
BTW for what it's worth back in the early 80s the rumor was that the early 69 or C9VE castings were the thick ones and all could safely be bored to 4.440 min an some of them could safely go 4.500, well it's true some can go to 4.5, just like some of the C8VE, and some of the D9TE and some of the D1VE blocks, the whole point of that block summit was to see if there was a certian casting number, foundry, or casting dates made any difference and the fact is it doesn't the DOVE blocks have no more consistancy on thick or thin cyl walls any better or any different than any other block.
I don't doubt that Dave's block summit at all. I have never stated that I did. He did a great job and has compliled some extremely usefull information.
Been building Ford engine's for 35 years and 460's for 25 of those. I would never mislead anybody or sell a product that I can't guarantee.
Last edited by Gary Blair; 10-24-2006 at 04:02 PM.
#7
10-24-2006, 03:53 PM
Block Summit
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
Gary, did you bother to read that link I posted? I doubt it by your posts so let me help you out, your info is wrong. I just went through the list of the blocks and picked out the DOVE-A casting and here is the highlights, you can check them yourself if you so choose.
#6 take a look at cyl #8 it's not going anywhere near 4.5 without a sleeve
#9 already had to be sleeved at 4.472 bore and still has some thin walls
#10 std bore by .060 over 3 cylinders will be below .100 thick, not even going to make the 4.440 without work let alone anywhere near 4.5
#11 about the same as above
#15 std bore and already has one cyl that is down to .127 thick so how do you propose that will make 4.440 let alone 4.5 or more
#18 4.470 bore and 2 cylinders already well below .100 thick
#20 4.440 bore and already had to have 3 sleeves put in and still has one cyl below .100 left
#21 std and already down to .115 and 3 cylinders will be below .100 at .080 or 4.440 bore so not going anywhere near 4.5
#22 darn good block about one of the best seen yet it still won't go to 4.5 without having cylinders with thinner than .100 bore.
so 9 blocks showed up at the block summit and none will really make 4.5 really well, well I guess that means that we were just unlucky down there and happened to get the only 9 DOVE blocks that don't happen to be any good, is that what your trying to say?
The truth is if you go through that list totally, any block casting number is capable of going to 4.440 and any block casting number including the DOVE-A blocks may not safely be bored .060 over without having issues. If you got $700 out of a DOVE-A block great, glad to hear you found a sucker to pay it, but I would still have to see that sonic sheet to believe that could safely be bored to 4.500 without having to have atleast one cylinder below .100 thick and probably should need sleeved. Now I used .100 but most guys agree you can go down to .095 and get away with it, but FRPP says the min on thier blocks at max bore on a non thrust wall is .120 so what does that tell you?
And just for reference I am running a D9TE 2 bolt block with factory caps and A heads over 900hp without problems and I payed $100 for the entire engine so why would I pay $700 for a block that isn't any better? And before you say it that block has now survived 2 race seasons and is still together.
BTW for what it's worth back in the early 80s the rumor was that the early 69 or C9VE castings were the thick ones and all could safely be bored to 4.440 min an some of them could safely go 4.500, well it's true some can go to 4.5, just like some of the C8VE, and some of the D9TE and some of the D1VE blocks, the whole point of that block summit was to see if there was a certian casting number, foundry, or casting dates made any difference and the fact is it doesn't the DOVE blocks have no more consistancy on thick or thin cyl walls any better or any different than any other block.
#6 take a look at cyl #8 it's not going anywhere near 4.5 without a sleeve
#9 already had to be sleeved at 4.472 bore and still has some thin walls
#10 std bore by .060 over 3 cylinders will be below .100 thick, not even going to make the 4.440 without work let alone anywhere near 4.5
#11 about the same as above
#15 std bore and already has one cyl that is down to .127 thick so how do you propose that will make 4.440 let alone 4.5 or more
#18 4.470 bore and 2 cylinders already well below .100 thick
#20 4.440 bore and already had to have 3 sleeves put in and still has one cyl below .100 left
#21 std and already down to .115 and 3 cylinders will be below .100 at .080 or 4.440 bore so not going anywhere near 4.5
#22 darn good block about one of the best seen yet it still won't go to 4.5 without having cylinders with thinner than .100 bore.
so 9 blocks showed up at the block summit and none will really make 4.5 really well, well I guess that means that we were just unlucky down there and happened to get the only 9 DOVE blocks that don't happen to be any good, is that what your trying to say?
The truth is if you go through that list totally, any block casting number is capable of going to 4.440 and any block casting number including the DOVE-A blocks may not safely be bored .060 over without having issues. If you got $700 out of a DOVE-A block great, glad to hear you found a sucker to pay it, but I would still have to see that sonic sheet to believe that could safely be bored to 4.500 without having to have atleast one cylinder below .100 thick and probably should need sleeved. Now I used .100 but most guys agree you can go down to .095 and get away with it, but FRPP says the min on thier blocks at max bore on a non thrust wall is .120 so what does that tell you?
And just for reference I am running a D9TE 2 bolt block with factory caps and A heads over 900hp without problems and I payed $100 for the entire engine so why would I pay $700 for a block that isn't any better? And before you say it that block has now survived 2 race seasons and is still together.
BTW for what it's worth back in the early 80s the rumor was that the early 69 or C9VE castings were the thick ones and all could safely be bored to 4.440 min an some of them could safely go 4.500, well it's true some can go to 4.5, just like some of the C8VE, and some of the D9TE and some of the D1VE blocks, the whole point of that block summit was to see if there was a certian casting number, foundry, or casting dates made any difference and the fact is it doesn't the DOVE blocks have no more consistancy on thick or thin cyl walls any better or any different than any other block.
Last edited by Gary Blair; 10-24-2006 at 04:21 PM.
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#8
10-24-2006, 04:55 PM
My interpretation of Dave McLain's block summit summarization is not that D0VE blocks cannot go 4.500, it is that ANY passenger car block may or may not be capable of a given overbore capability. If a block's sonic check shows that it is capable, then that's great.
Paul
Paul
Last edited by Paul Kane; 10-24-2006 at 05:15 PM.
#9
10-24-2006, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Paul Kane
My interpretation of Dave McLain's block summit summarization is not that D0VE blocks cannot go 4.500, it is that ANY passenger car block may or may not be capable of a given overbore capability. If a block's sonic check shows that it is capable, then that's great.
Paul
Paul
Gary, I am impressed with your supply of DOVE blocks, to come up with 11 blocks that can go 4.5 or better and still have .115 or better on the thinnest non thrust wall you must have had to sonic map 1000-2000 blocks and bieng able to find that many to run through sonic checks just to sell 11 is really impressive in itself. There is always some core shift and always atleast one cylinder that seems to be on the thin side. I have seen guys sonic test 15-20 early blocks just to find one that will stay that high at 4.440, not that it is needed but still thats .060 short of bieng at 4.5.
#10
04-13-2022, 02:17 AM
Big block
Thank you Paul thats the point I was trying to get across, you don't have to spend rediculous amounts just to get a DOVE block for the overbore capacity because they do not have any thicker cyliinder walls than any other block the only advantage to the DOVE blocks is the thicker main webbing which makes them easier to convert to 4 bolt mains.
Gary, I am impressed with your supply of DOVE blocks, to come up with 11 blocks that can go 4.5 or better and still have .115 or better on the thinnest non thrust wall you must have had to sonic map 1000-2000 blocks and bieng able to find that many to run through sonic checks just to sell 11 is really impressive in itself. There is always some core shift and always atleast one cylinder that seems to be on the thin side. I have seen guys sonic test 15-20 early blocks just to find one that will stay that high at 4.440, not that it is needed but still thats .060 short of bieng at 4.5.
Gary, I am impressed with your supply of DOVE blocks, to come up with 11 blocks that can go 4.5 or better and still have .115 or better on the thinnest non thrust wall you must have had to sonic map 1000-2000 blocks and bieng able to find that many to run through sonic checks just to sell 11 is really impressive in itself. There is always some core shift and always atleast one cylinder that seems to be on the thin side. I have seen guys sonic test 15-20 early blocks just to find one that will stay that high at 4.440, not that it is needed but still thats .060 short of bieng at 4.5.
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