Hi,
First off I'd like to apologize for anything that I say that is misspelled, misquoted, misinterpreted, uninformed, or just plain dumb, I am new to this, in fact this is the first time I have really worked on a truck (other than installing radios). So please, forgive my inexperience. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:13.5pt; height:13.5pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C<img src="http://images.ford-trucks.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" smilieid="4" class="inlineimg" />OCUME~1STEVEN~1LOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_image0 01.gif" o:href="http://images.ford-trucks.com/forums/images/smilies2/dead.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

Anyway, a few days ago, a friend of mine gave me an '86 F-150 that needed (according to him) a new starter, alternator, battery, and power steering belt, all of which, he assured me, I could get for around $200...

So I decided to get the battery and get the starter working first, then jump start it, and see how it ran, to see if that was really all it needed* so I went to AZ and picked up a new starter (apparently the one built for it won't fit...) spent around $30
came home put it on and the problem went from it doing nothing to just making a single loud click...

I went back to AZ and had the starter checked (it was fine) and asked them what they thought the problem could be. They said it sounded like an electrical problem and suggested I replace the solenoid, so I bought a new one, went back home, put the starter back on, installed the new solenoid and it went from a single click to an almost grinding sound emanating from the solenoid, and if the key is held in the 'start' position, the solenoid random wires that were connected became literally red hot and begin to smoke, so I disconnected everything but the battery (its a new one) and the starter just to see what would happen, and I has gone back to one loud click...

so I talked to the neighbor's son who was a mechanic and he said check if the flywheel was rotatable, and after finding out it wasn't came over attached a socket wrench of some sort to a part on the front of the e-block itself and rotated it, then told me that if the battery worked, the solenoid was new, and the engine could turn it had to be the starter, but the starter is new, so it can't be that...

so my first question is:

is there another possible cause for this?

and my second question is:

and what actually needs to be connected to the solenoid to start it?

Oh and sorry for the long post...

*what it "needs" and what I want for it are a little different... hehe

 

Welcome to the best Ford truck forum on the 'net!

Slow down a bit. Lets take this one step at a time and figure out what's going on. It's almost always more expensive and slower to start throwing parts at a problem rather than taking the time to diagnose. It would help if you would provide a few more details such as engine size. We need to clear up what you mean when you say the starter built for the engine won't fit. What starter are you using?

What wires got hot enough to glow or smoke while the starter was engaged? The "one loud click" you hear when the starter is disconnected is the normal sound of the starter solenoid or relay engaging. One side of the soleniod should have a large wire from the battery + post attached as well as one (or more, depending on whether or not the truck has an ammeter) smaller wires called fusible lengths. These fuse links are merely short pieces of smaller gauge wire spliced to the ends of heavy wire needed to supply ignition, accessories, etc. The fuse link is the sacrificial part, designed to melt while protecting the heavier wire. The other big post on the soleniod is connected directly to the starter through another heavy cable. The small wire plugged into the side is energized when you turn the key to the "start" position. It energizes the coil in the solenoid pulling the contacts together. Unplug this wire for now...

Okay, let's get to basics. Check the wires. In particular, check the big wire that runs from the solenoid to the starter. Take if loose from the solenoid and make sure the connection is clean. Leave it off for now. Make sure the insulation isn't broken. Play close attention to areas where it may be clamped in support brackets. If this wire is grounded bad things happen to your battery and wiring....

Now check the negative lead off the battery. There should be a heavy gauge wire running from the battery negative post to the engine. Make sure it is connected well on each end. Take the connection loose and clean the wire and mounting point before re-attaching.

Still got those jumper cables you were going to use earlier? Great! Set the starter on the ground in front of the truck. Use the red cable to connect from the cable terminal on the starter to the starter post on the solenoid. Connect the black cable from the negative battery terminal to one of the "ears" on the starter. Take a screwdriver and hold the blade on the battery terminal of the starter solenoid. You should be able to swing the screwdiver shaft over to touch the post on the front of the solenoid to energize it. (Don't touch anything else with the screwdriver while you're doing this. If you have a remote starter switch it would be better.) When you energize the relay the starter should spin and the starter gear should pop out to the end of the shaft. If it does, the starter is okay. You should be able to install the starter, reconnect the wires on the solenoid and at least crank the engine. It may not start depending on what was burnt when you had the wires smoking.

But let's get it cranking first and we can go from there.

 

Good tip. You may also want to hold the starter with your foot as it will try and rotate and could rip the cables loose...

I would look at the cables. They can get cruddy inside and look fine outside. Factory ground runs from the negative post to the engine, but there is a "vampire tap" the grounds the frame. If you replace the cables, go from the batt to the engine and buy a smaller cable with bolt ends (not the battery clamps) and go from the engine stud to the frame.

I had the same problem you mention with my 83 (I6). I replaced all the cables and that fixed it.

Also if your 86 is EFI there is a small wire that connects to the ground cable. It's a computer ground. That needs to be hooked up or it won't run.

 

Sorry, about being vague, the whole thing had me frustrated and I really don't like not having a clue about what should be done...

But the neighbor’s son was over again today, and sent me off to get things and then to do things...

Long story short: Went back to AZ had them test it again, it passed one test, but when tested again it failed and kept failing, so I had it exchanged, came back put this one on, and by sacrificing the new solenoid got the engine to turn.<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:15pt; height:15pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///COCUME~1STEVEN~1LOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_imag e001.gif" o:href="http://images.ford-trucks.com/forums/images/smilies/happy0161.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

the wires that were glowing were doing that because they were not heavy gauge and didn't like heat all that much, and somehow the old starter was shorting out, which heated the whole thing up a lot...

then, checked the spark plugs, oil, and put a little gas in the carb (I think that’s what it is, but I have never done engine work so...) and got it started, but it sounds like a cement mixer when its running and the flywheel is worn down in a spot that the starter seems to find frequently <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:22.5pt;height:17.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///COCUME~1STEVEN~1LOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\01clip_imag e002.gif" o:href="http://images.ford-trucks.com/forums/images/smilies2/mad0228.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

and thank you for the advice, had he not come over and I had a chance to get to my comp, then it probably wouldn't have taken all day...





his advice was, let the engine idle till oil makes it back into everything, 'cause that's probably what the sound is...

and the flywheel he said is going to cost me around $250, but he wants to get a good look at it first...