Whenever i start my expy for the first time of the day (basically if it sits for more than 7 or 8 hours) i hear the awful lifters sound but only for about 20 or 30 seconds... as soon as i hit the gas a few times its gone... is this normal associated with the 5.4???? is there a way to quiet it down?? i only have about 93K on it... not to high for 5.4 ...

 

My '01 started doing that around 65K miles. I switched over to synthetic oil and it went away. If you're already using syn oil or switching doesn't fix it you might try a good engine flush. You might have some clogged or congested oil passeges preventing the top of the engine from being properly lubed.

 

what do you segjest?? seafoam??? in the brake booster line???

 

Ok, in combination with your other spark plug post I'd do the following:

1. Run some seafoam through the system per the recommeded vacuum procedure (it's on here somewhere).
2. In conjunction with the above also add some seafoam directly into the crankcase about 100 miles before changing the oil. This will help clean things out.
3. Change the oil, you can go with syn or dino. Syn has more detergent in it for cleaning. You need to look for any leaks around the gaskets. The seafoam and synthetic oil will loosen all the "gunk", the downside here is that the "gunk" tends to plug gasket leaks. It's a risk, however i'm yet to read a post where someone ended up with an oil leak after doing this.
4. Change your plugs.
Hopefully that will address your issues. Keep in mind that some engines just develop lifter chatter as a matter of age and the only way to get rid of it is to tear down the engine and readjust the lash on the lifter rods.

 

i would start with something more simple. ford has a tsb out for this , it has to do with the wrong oil filter being used. these engines must have an oil filter with a silicone ADBV like the FL820S.

 

Ford has also stated that this is normal and will not affect the life of your engine. I've heard of people using oil additives, the correct filter, synthetic oil, etc, and the tap still being there. I've also read about people using any combination of these and it fixing the issue.

For more information check out this thread:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...ine-knock.html

 

FL820S -- this is the correct oil filter part number??

also.. is it true if i switch to synthetic oil i cant switch back???

 

I swear ... that step #2 is just a mystery to me; I know you are a NASA engineer and all, and no disrespect intended,... but I talked with about ten of my chief engineer friends (we are marine engineers, running big diesels, gas turbines, gas engines, turbines ... of all sizes and hp's) and we asked some tribologist friends who support our engineering school and union and they all tell us that running an engine under load with diluted oil in any form just can't be healthy for the bearing surfaces. Maybe we're all just nuts, but we are prohibited with doing that (on company property, anyway, like the engines on ships). Step #1 is iffy, but could work. None of us can find any documentation on the step #2 practice, though. Oh well, if it works for the masses, more power to 'em.

 

None taken, I agree step 2 is somewhat suspect. The seafoam will "cut" the oil and act as a solvent. I would not add more than 1/2 a can to 6 quarts of engine oil as it will temporarily thin the oil. The seafoam will burn at a much lower temp than the engine oil. It's only purpose is to help dilute and cut some of the gunk long enough to get it to the oil filter. After 100 miles the oil temp will have raised enough to burn the seafoam off. It should be ok for short durations, just make sure you don't thin it out too much and keep and eye on the temp.

As far as step one, I'd be skeptical if it didn't get rid of my Expy's rough idle. I think my old Expy's intake was pretty gummed up from the oil on the KandN air filter and chemically, the seafoam is essentially the same a spray throttle body cleaner.

I've read post from others who have argued that the seafoam can't really clean burnt carbon deposits (because they have already been consumed) or provide any cleaning. However, carbon deposits are hydrocarbons that can readily bind to other hydrocarbons with the addition of heat. That's exactly what seafoam is...left over hydrocarbons from the highest fraction of petroleum refining. They are nothing but poly-carbon chains of varying lengths, probably between C10 and C15 in length. I doubt even the makers of the stuff know the exact percentages of the varying carbon chains in their product, as they are essentially selling a byproduct (which they are making a heavy profit on, there's not more the .25 cents of product in the large bottle). When you add the seafoam to your engine the shorter chains can pick up carbon and carry them out of the engine during the exhaust stroke.
Initially, I thought all the smoke was the result of incomplete combustion of the seafoam and gas mixing in the cylinder. If that were the case you'd get the same large amount of smoke every time you use it. However, I retreated my engine 5000 miles after the first treatment and got almost no smoke (this was at about 70K total miles). Which tells me that the product reacted with something in the engine during the first treatment that was no longer there during the following treatment. I treated the car again at around 95K miles and once again got a moderate amount of smoke.

Sorry for the rambling, I’ve been at a conference in Orlando for the past 5 days and I’m not really sleeping well in this hotel room…so I’ve got time to ramble

 

am i the only one that wants to bring up this engine has no lifters.

 

Keep an eye on the oil pressure too.

I had an engine full of emulsified oil from a head gasket leak.
I cleaned it out by thinng some cheap oil with kerosene about 50%.
I kept a close eye on the guages and a close ear for knocks.

I rinsed and repeated with less kero and a new filter then eventually I did about 100 miles on a full sumpfull of clean oil.
One more oil change, the good stuff this time, and a new filter and it's been fine ever since.

Just saying you can cut your oil with a solvent or detergent safely if you're careful.

I know a bloke who flushes his 360 Chrysler with neat diesel at every oil change.
I wouldn't recommend that but it appears to work.

But then you can't kill those old Mopar engines even with a big stick.

 

I actually enjoyed the rambling, bridge. Interesting stuff. I was wondering how much a brand new engine would smoke with this stuff, and it sounds like very little based on your experience. My 130k 4.6L smoked like nobody's business.

 

Doubting my sanity and wondering what technical innovation that actuates the valves had somehow escaped my attention I checked the service manual...the P/N for the lifters is 5L1Z6500A. They cost about $5 a piece. Sooo, yup there are some lifters in there.

I too wonder how much a new engine would smoke. Mines got 12.5K on it, so its not exactly new. But, I'm going to run some through it this weekend hoping to smooth out the rough idle that the dealship says they can't find. I'd take some pics to give everybody an idea of the amount of smoke involved but I'm to embarrased to do this in day light. I ran some through my '02 Mustang GT a few months back (40K miles) and it smoked. Alot. So much that most of the neighbors all came out of their houses to see what the hell I had cought on fire this time.

I got back into town yesterday hoping the the dealership would have addressed all my issues (road noise and wobbling sound from the tires, rattling airbag cover on passenger side, rough idle). Nope. They did the force balance (free of charge!) but still lots of noise. They said they couldn't get the air bag cover to rattle when they were driving it. Some issues I could understand them having to identify before fixing, but a loose rattling air bag cover? Sometimes you've just got to trust the customer.

 

Can you be hearing the piston slap? Mine did it until I went to synthetic oil.

 

yes the engine has a form of lifters , but ford calls them hydraulic lash adjusters a more complex form of a lifter.