I saw no reference or implication that anyone is / was dumb.

 

I think this is the B.M. Catfish_Man mentioned in an earlier post

2004 F-Series/Excursion Barometric Pressure Sensor Application:
Be advised that the barometric pressure (BARO) sensor was changed for the 2004 model year. Trucks built before 9-29-03 use the same BARO sensor as previous models--F8UZ-12A644-AA. Trucks built on or after 9-29-04 (2004.25) use part number 4C2Z-12A644-AA. Using the incorrect part for applicate will cause driveability symptoms. Broadcast Message 3162.

 

With a sealed box and a light vacuum pump you could make a pretty simple baro tester. Just stick it in there and evacuate and have a calibrated gauge to check against whatever resistance the baro is putting out, but i guess you would need to know how Ford calibrates them etc.

PS-> This is a great thread for me, I am a 2/mo 2100 mile diesel dummy right now, but I keep on reading !!!

 

Flux,

Join in.

Nothin' wrong with being ignorant . Not dumb!

But I think it's just now getting interesting.

And, yes it could just take a simple calibrated sealed box to test the Baro sensor across the range of the sensor and per whatever Ford's specs are.

The issue being whether the sensor gives a output signal to higher or lower barometric pressures than is at the dealer servicing elevation.

Note that you might have to PRESSURIZE the sensor as well if a service dealer checking the sensor is located at say 5,000 feet above sea level. So a simple vaccum pump may not work at all service dealer locations

I'm still looking for any type of Ford reccomended procedure for testing this sensor at at any Ford service facility.

6.0 engine tech's on this board seem not to even know about it, except that it is not located inside the engine compartment.

 

Catfish_Man: You sent me the following message without the fortitude to turn on your messaging so that I could reply...privately. Therefore, I choose to respond in this open forum that you accuse me of violating.

Your message is in blue...my corresponding reply is in italic bold.


The thead seems to rely on your expertise. And some apparently have sent you
private messages. (No one sent me anything)

Thanks for explaining th Boradcast message on the Baro sensor to someone who I
don't know here and that obviously made an inquiry in that regard. (This was an attempt to help due to a statement in your post # 4. Nothing more, nothing less.)

Hey!

I don't know you, but I assume you are a moderator. (Yes, I am.)

So why don't you just let this thread go like it needs to? (I have no idea what you are talking about. There is / was no attempt by me to hijack this thread or guide it in any way.)

You are jumping on something you don't have an interest in because you have
contributed nothing to the thread nor have you apparently had experience in this
area. (What is the catalyst to this statement?)

No forum rules have been violated. (I never implied or thought that there were.)

So why don't you just go back to your hole as administrator and let us
participants work through this thread through to conclusion? (There certainly is no reason for me to respond a childish asinine statement such as this.)

Do we all need your approval to do this? (No...why would you even ask?)

End of message.

Sir, I have no idea what prompted this personal attack on me....but I can assure you that I will be more than happy to oblige you in debate should you want to do so privately.

If you want to communicate with me further regarding this matter then I recommend that you open up your e-mail / P.M. capability.

I apologize to the other members / readers for having to bring this into the thread but, Catfish_Man afforded me no other opportunity to respond to his unprovoked, malicious attack.

I will remove this post later this evening or in the morning so as not to further contaminate this otherwise informative thread.

Please feel free to continue with this thread.

Thank you in advance for your indulgence.

Keith

 

catfish--- I guess someone has misled you in believing that there was no test for the baro sensor. We do have one, and the easiest way to test it is to compare it to other sensors that measure the same thing(atmospheric pressure) KOEO there should be the same reading from baro-map- and ebp.Any good scanner should be able to show you this. As far as the dtc not showing up as a cel, some do and some dont. would you want a cel on if the door ajar switch was faulty? The computer system you have is the same as Chrysler, Gm, Ford, toyota, and any vehicle sold in north america (OBD2). The government made all manufacturers standardize the system under pressure from the aftermarket industry. So, if you have lost confidence in the system, I dont know what you would have to buy. At first glance, it may very well seem complex,Its not. Think about it, its not relying on the information from one sensor, it looks at several to make its decisions.

 

ok plain and simple, cut and dry answer. why are you so hooked on the baro sensor catfish and what exactly are you wanting us to help you with?

 

We are going to try to keep this on topic because I think it is important.

Please let me reply:

First, I'm hooked on the barometric sensor for to reasons.
1.) My truck exibited issues with performance that was observed only at higher altitudes. And that performance issue never before observed perhaps because the truck had not recently been to higher altitudes and alo had not towed heavy loads at high altitudes since new.
1a.) After decending to lower altitude even with a heavy load, the truck performed normally.

That's why I'm so interested in the Baro sensor.
I say again, my turbo was not laying down on me and my engine power was fine at lower altitudes.

To recount history my truck stored a DTC code P0478 sometine during the trip.

(I don't know when it stored it, because the truck never notified me with a CEL light.)

What local Ford service did after the trip was replace my turbo. Now I'm not dissatisfied with that (except for having my truck unavailable for three days) but replacing the turbo made no perceptable difference to me about how the truck performed here at home elevation either with a light load or loaded with a heavy trailer.

Dumb as I am, I don't know of other inputs to the engine control system that is related to air density. (The MAF is a velocity only dependent sensor?)

Then I tried to figure why I would experience such a situation without a CEL, but I clearly had a DTC set.

In my opinion, I may have been able to help out my Ford Service dealer in diagnosis if I had observed a CEL or some other light when the DTC was set. I have absolutely no idea when the DTC set or whether it might have been set multiple times on the trip. Did it happen on the climb up or the trip back to lower altitude? Was I climbing at full throttle or braking in Tow-Haul. Who knows?

Even if it is not the baro sensor when the computer sets a code, I'd personally like to know when! And I'd like to know because it's my money I've paid for the vehicle and I don't expect performance problems.

Not only that, I'm smart enough to know I can expect issues with a piece of machinery But it makes no sense to me that I can't do anything more than just take a vehicle with a set DTC code to my service partner and not be able to tell them exactly when and under what conditions the engine initially experienced an issue.

(Obviously I can't replicate or test the situation at this altitude, or I'd just load the Service advisor and tech with his instruments and go for a ride.)

Am I being dumb to ask why I never got a CEL? Am I being dumb for asking whether a possibly defective Baro sensor would produce a CEL? Am I being dumb by asking wheter Ford has a way to shop test the baro sensor? Am I being dumb to ask the price of the sensor and whether I can just replace it myself (cost me a whole lot less headache and money to take it back to the service dealer for another two days.)

My situation is this: Next time I take this truck pulling the camper in the mountains, I sure don't expect the engine to lay down like it did the last time. The second time will be across the Rocky Mountains in the very remotest portions of west Canada.

Further, bassd on what I see on this board, Ford is throwing a lot of warranty bucks at turbos right now. On the other hand, a majority of 6.0 owners here seem quite satisfied and they also pull heavy loads at all kinds of altitudes and apparently they have never had a turbo replaced. Many of those other "satisfied" owners have more miles than me, but might not pull the load I do on occaision.

KW5413,

Like I said, I think you ought to let this thread go on a little more.

Next time you send me a private email, I'll be more carefull!

You aren't compensated by Ford are you?

AND, this thread is open for everyone to see I HOPE!!

 

believe it or not, every one of your comments/questions have been answered in one form or another. As far as the turbo issue, it is a well known fact that there is "parts changers" out there. Ford has addressed this issue as well. When you do a warranty repair, you send the warrantied part back in for inspection. If that part is found not to be defective, it is charged back to the dealership.The wanton replacing of turbos is slowing down.Because your turbo was replaced doesnt mean it was necessarily bad.You can get a baro code and it doesnt necessarily mean its bad either. Too many times, not enough diagnostic time is spent, and parts are needlessly replaced.There is a diagnostic worksheet that each tech is supposed to follow for each problem. One of the first steps is to perform KOEO,KOER, so whether or not you were privvy to the dtcs, the tech should check them anyway. Back to the topic, can a turbo cause an overheat? Possible, but not very likely. If you are still confused, talk to your dealer, he will have documents for you to read and solve your concerns.

 

geez... sometimes when a code happens it is not generally a fault gas or diesel, american or japan made period. now go do some reserch so you can understand this issue better because i dont think this is the proper place to hold classroom.

if you want to replace your baro then go buy one, remove your panel under your column and the switch is under the column. now go do it so you will feel better.

 

I don't think I made any indication that I was going to close this thread. You are the only one that speaks of it. It is open for all to see.

This makes at least the second and maybe the third time you have asked if I am compensated by Ford. The answer is still no. Nor am I compensated by FTE.

You have never received a private e-mail from me. But, only because you do not have it enabled thru FTE.

 

vloney,

Looks like you have answered most of the questions here, and acknowdge "wanton turbo replacements" by certain dealers, which you say is an issue addressed by Ford themselves. And you said "The wanton replacing of turbos is slowing down."

(In my case that's exactly what I thought was applicable to my truck and probably was unecessary for me, my service dealer and for Ford.)

"You can get a baro code and it doesnt necessarily mean its bad either."

Well I can't even find a code number for a Baro Sensor fault. Can you provide what might be stored as a DTC for that?

You are saying regarding KOEO and KOER? Are these diagnostic procedures that mean nothing to me as an owner? Do any of these tests directly the Baro sensor output?

"so whether or not you were privvy to the dtcs"

Wait a minuite!! I own the truck, and paid my good money for it, so what I said is that I'd really like to help my service dealer help solve my service issue from the git go! And unless an owner has an IDEA under what conditions a code is set I can't help even myself, nor cvan I help my dealer or Ford solve the issue that we all are trying to deal with!.....!!!!

Makes no sense to me to just take my vehicle into to a tech and say fix this code or problem. I'd rather take it in to the tech and tell him (for example) that the code was only set twice when in tow haul decending on a 5% grade with an 8,000 pound trailer.

In the days of microprocessors Ford shold be able to tell how many times a code was set )and with a little GPS savy) exctly where and in what engine conditions the codes were set When a code is set all insatant engine vehicle parameters from every sensor should be stored as well and they should be readable by Ford as well.

What is Ford service and probably all other manufacturers afraid of here?

I'm still wondering if the Baro sensor is truely at fault and wonder still about ways for a technician to test the baro sensor inside his shop and at his own elevation.

So I am going to ask these simple questions again (implied before and above): Does Ford have a prescribed method of testing the Barometric sensor by itself in a dealers shop? Has Ford made available fixtures to perform such tests to service dealers? Has Ford ever published private bulitens regarding the servicing or testing of this sensor other than what is available to owners of 6.0 engines?

BUT! I should be able to contact my dealer and determine whether Ford approved or the dealer had to eat the cost of my Turbo replacement. That might be very interesting because all I got as an owner was an interesting print out saying they had charged Ford for changing certain part numbers under warranty and some kind of labor code number that can't be understood by the owner anyway.

Man it would be nice to see more on my ticket.

Something like performed KOEO and KOER diagnostics, found turbo bad? That would be great to see!

 

Again, for the second time---to test your baro sensor, KOEO(key on engine off) with your scanner or diagnostic tool in data stream, readings for baro,ebp,and map should be the same because they measure the same thing! Now of Ford hasnt supplied you with the proper diagnostic equipment, send me a check for $5800 and I will supply you with one. You having paid good money for your truck,ought to have one!As far as the dealer supplying information about financial details of their business, I doubt they will.Oh, and if you havent already figured it out KOER means key on engine running.As far as I or any dealer tech needing customer help to diagnose a problem, if I need you, I'll call you. There is a thing called a snapshot. It takes data at the time a dtc is set. They dont need gps, but thanks for suggesting it.As far as the conversation on barometric pressure sensors, you are the only one that is worried about it.

 

Vloney,

So as an owner, I should have purchased a $5800.00 code reader/diiagnostoc tool? Sorry, but I didn't see that as an original option when I bought the vehicle and if I did, I'd never have bought the Ford if I had seen that option as available or suggested by Ford. Not only that, that "option" would have inflated the price beyond any reasonable or competetive price at the time of my purchase.

Please don't suggest to me as an owner that I put another $5800 into my purchse!

What you suggest is purely ridiculous. And I don't think even Ford would make that reccomendation for any buyer!

Dumb me again about the KOER thing, I appoligize, but thanks for explaining. I maybe should have pulled on the side of the road when the problem occurred and then done the KOEO thing?

As far as a "snapshot" is concerned can that be read by you as a tech?

I guess techs get all of the present DTC readings. And those readings are date and time stamped? Those include the reading that comes from the Baro sensor and others .

Is this right about the "snapshot" thing?

So any good tech would know that a truck was hauling up or down hill and know what the demands were on the engine exactly when a DTC was set?

Not only that, but the same DTC code set, can you see that as well?

Still can,t figure why not CEL or other notification to the owner. If the truck is stumbling and not performing and sets a DTC code then why not at least give me a beep or light or something?

Heck, maybe you should have paid the 40 grand for the truck I own! At least that way you could run around with your free $5800 private accessory/data recorder or look into putting another six grand into your two year old truck just to keep it running like it should be to begin with.

Even if I bought the data recorder from Ford, they would not give me what I need anyway and that's a decent truck. And moreover, all they would do is use my data for their purposes.

Now give me a new 2008 6.4 and a data recorder and I'm good to go. All I need is $105.00 for consulting and what ever the costs are for the haul.

We are definltely going to Alaska next April and back from the east cost pulling a 12,000 pound fifth wheel. Twelve weeks on the road with a load that Ford says I can pull.

Bull ****! I have a Ford 6.0 diesel with 20,000 miles on it and it can't pull the load at at only 3,000 feet above sea level?l And you want me to pull my camper across the rockies on the Alaskan highay. Thats stupid!

What should I do? Should I expect to find a Ford dealer in Moose Jaw, Saketchewan and wait ten days to have another turbo flown in?

I'll hook up and go if you guys here say she is capable. Otherwise, I've done what I can do for her and to get her ready to go. To date, I've done ll I can do for her all the oil changes, filter changes and all. New set of tires, all new fluids next spring and go?

What you say? Should I buy a new truck or the $5800 dollar recorder before we leave?

 

The whole thing about the diagnostic analyzer is that there is no way you are going to have all the information available to the ford tech. What you need to have a decent truck is a decent tech. There is no reason someone should say "I cant find the problem". There is diagnostic flow charts for every symptom, all you have to do is follow them.And yes, the snapshot can be read by the tech.