Gains from bolt ons?
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Mirror, Alberta
Originally Posted by raccol
Thanks for the input. So basically, about 15hp is about all you can expect to get? I test drove the 4.6L on the highway last night and passing is terrible. Will the tuner make any significant difference with this or am I just out of luck unless I figure out how to get the 5.4?<O></O>
Any comments on this?
Any comments on this?
My experience with the 4.6 is limited to a couple of company trucks that I drove occasionally. My feeling is that it is a good motor for its displacement, but it is no 5.4.
Having said that, I think that the addition of a tuner will at least make you more comfortable with the towing and passing capabilities. The change in the shift quality alone will make a significant difference. Start with the tuner and then do intake and exhaust mods as you can afford them.
Try to drive a truck that has been broken in as well. The 4.6 makes its power at fairly high rpm's and this is probably affected more in a motor that is still tight.
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Mirror, Alberta
Originally Posted by raccol
I'm looking at buying a 2006 S-Crew XLT with a 4.6L and tow package. I would prefer the 5.4L but with the extra $2K rebate being offered for the 4.6L makes it almost a $3K difference. I’ve read many of the posts recommending the 5.4L option with the heavier duty tranny and rear and I would go this route if the budget allowed. I don’t plan to do a lot of towing and the max would probably be about 4500 lbs.
Given there’s probably a 4.6 in my future, what kind of horsepower gains can be made with a programmer/tuner and minor bolt-ons at a later time? Would it be enough to split the difference with the 5.4, say around 265 hp?
A side note, since Ford is currently pushing the 2006 4.6L with the rebate, will they likely offer a similar rebate on leftover 5.4L once the 4.6L are gone?
Thanks
Given there’s probably a 4.6 in my future, what kind of horsepower gains can be made with a programmer/tuner and minor bolt-ons at a later time? Would it be enough to split the difference with the 5.4, say around 265 hp?
A side note, since Ford is currently pushing the 2006 4.6L with the rebate, will they likely offer a similar rebate on leftover 5.4L once the 4.6L are gone?
Thanks
My guess is that you could very likely split the difference between the 4.6 factory horsepower rating and the 5.4 factory horsepower rating with a tuner and some intake and exhaust work. Where you will still be down is in torque because of the displacement and the fact that the 5.4 is a longer stroke motor. I don't think any manufacturer has ever published a rear wheel horsepower rating and I seriously doubt that they ever will. In fact the published numbers probably come from a motor without any practical encumberances such as any drive belts or accessories (kind of like weight numbers without any fluids in the truck, designed to sell, not to enlighten).
Last edited by bigdavewilson; Sep 2, 2006 at 01:52 PM.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 924
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From: Fuquay Varina,NC
The torque of a tuned 4.6 compared to a stock 5.4 is shocklinly close. Our dyno posted earlier showed roughly 279 at the wheels on a tuned 4.6. A 5.4 with the SAME bolts ons, on the SAME dyno, pulled just after that truck showed roughly 283 at the wheels, without a tune. So achieving the same torque as a stock 5.4 can be done with a few mods, the tune seems to give the largest boost.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Oxford, CT
Originally Posted by Bob Jusnes
Pulleys are $199
http://jusnesmodified.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=156_161_268 _417&products_id=187
Efans range, but the most popular (and most expensive) is $315 for Dual 16s with Dual Controllers
http://jusnesmodified.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=156_161_234
Or you can get them both, in a package deal with a gatorback belt for $529
http://jusnesmodified.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=156_161_275 &products_id=208
All these prices include shipping
http://jusnesmodified.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=156_161_268 _417&products_id=187
Efans range, but the most popular (and most expensive) is $315 for Dual 16s with Dual Controllers
http://jusnesmodified.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=156_161_234
Or you can get them both, in a package deal with a gatorback belt for $529
http://jusnesmodified.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=156_161_275 &products_id=208
All these prices include shipping
I have the Edge as my programmer...does this unit allow you to raise the idle RPM??
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 11
I'm alittle lost here and maybe someone can help. An engine makes a "x" amount of HP and torque. In our case the 5.4 makes 300 Hp. Pullies, transmission, brakes, rearends, and tires rob at least in the neiborhood of 75 horses. But this things on rob it once. What i;m trying to say is if you boost the engine say 15 HP then you sould see it at the rearwheels. Gaining the 1st 70 or so HP use to be called freeing up HP cause it was power the engine made but was stolen. I'm feeling yall are saying that if you add to the engine the componts are still robbing the power. i dont get that. if you where to change your drive pulleys by 1% it should change the rear power by 1%. For the life of me i cant figure why this wont hold true.
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Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2006
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Thanks guys for the input. You've let me know that you can close the gap enough to make a difference. I opted for the 4.6 with 3.73 since that's the only way I could get one with the tow package and TL. As much as I wanted he 5.4L, I just couldn't justify the almost $4K difference they were asking ($900 for the engine option and an additional $3K in rebates).
At what point can I start making the mods? I'll start with the tuner and then the exhaust. I think I'll pass on the intake and just make the mods listed in this post.
At what point can I start making the mods? I'll start with the tuner and then the exhaust. I think I'll pass on the intake and just make the mods listed in this post.
New User
Joined: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by bigdavewilson
One thing that is getting mixed up in the discussions is the difference between power at the flywheel and power at the rear wheels.
My guess is that you could very likely split the difference between the 4.6 factory horsepower rating and the 5.4 factory horsepower rating with a tuner and some intake and exhaust work. Where you will still be down is in torque because of the displacement and the fact that the 5.4 is a longer stroke motor. I don't think any manufacturer has ever published a rear wheel horsepower rating and I seriously doubt that they ever will. In fact the published numbers probably come from a motor without any practical encumberances such as any drive belts or accessories (kind of like weight numbers without any fluids in the truck, designed to sell, not to enlighten).
My guess is that you could very likely split the difference between the 4.6 factory horsepower rating and the 5.4 factory horsepower rating with a tuner and some intake and exhaust work. Where you will still be down is in torque because of the displacement and the fact that the 5.4 is a longer stroke motor. I don't think any manufacturer has ever published a rear wheel horsepower rating and I seriously doubt that they ever will. In fact the published numbers probably come from a motor without any practical encumberances such as any drive belts or accessories (kind of like weight numbers without any fluids in the truck, designed to sell, not to enlighten).
Bob, out of curiosity, what does the 4.6L torque curve look like on these trucks vs a 5.4L. I'm used the to torque curve on the 4.6L DOHC engines where they would make all peak torque at 4800 RPMS or higher, so you would have to gear them to death (I had 4.30s in my Cobra) to get them to move.
I'm thinking about a programmer. We just got the truck - anyone local to Columbus OH have a 5.4L with a programmer on it so I can see the affects?
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Fuquay Varina,NC
hmm. all the dyno charts i have are scanned pieces of paper, so i cant lay one torque curve over the other. I think i already posted our 4.6 chart up, here is a chart of our 5.4 without a tune. Right now im having a hard time rounding up the chart that was WITH a tune, but we were having trouble with the dyno. Its apparent in our 5.4 chart that we were having fun dealing with the torque management, which kind of skewed the torque curve, giving it that wavy look. The numbers arent actually too bad, this run was done with the stock intake and stock tuning. Only mods were pulleys, fans, and magnaflow cat back
Last edited by Bob Jusnes; Sep 3, 2006 at 04:57 PM.
New User
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That's a good comparison. It's pretty easy to see that the 4.6 peaks early then falls off, while the 5.4 seems to peak and hold steady (other than whatever games the computer was playing). I guess the 4.6L is running out of breath up top?
Those 3vs and 2v 4.6Ls are nice! I'm use to seeing torque that looks like horsepower curve, not something that peaks off idle and holds steady.
Those 3vs and 2v 4.6Ls are nice! I'm use to seeing torque that looks like horsepower curve, not something that peaks off idle and holds steady.
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 924
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From: Fuquay Varina,NC
Right, the 5.4 is pretty good about holding that torque, if we could have gotten the dyno to work like we wanted (we had a lot of trouble with the charts on a 6.0 PSD as well) we could have gotten some really accurate results, so i do apologize for that.
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 591
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From: Mirror, Alberta
Originally Posted by Bob Jusnes
on a reg cab 4.6, with our efans, pullies, and a custom exhaust, we dynoed 209/233 peak. We had BamaChips make a custom tune for it right there on the dyno, and peaked 225/279, so, at the peak of each band, the tune gained 16/46 at the wheels. I wish had gone back to look at the max gain. It held well above 250 torque until about 4700 rpm.
These engines have plenty of oomph that can be released, so dont fell bad that you got one, they still make enough power to move around in traffic.
The 4.6 in the truck is a 2v for now, expect a 3v in late 07 or 08
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/a...tid=2490&stc=1
These engines have plenty of oomph that can be released, so dont fell bad that you got one, they still make enough power to move around in traffic.
The 4.6 in the truck is a 2v for now, expect a 3v in late 07 or 08
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/a...tid=2490&stc=1
)
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 567
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From: Mandeville, La
Originally Posted by raccol
I'm looking at buying a 2006 S-Crew XLT with a 4.6L and tow package. I would prefer the 5.4L but with the extra $2K rebate being offered for the 4.6L makes it almost a $3K difference. I’ve read many of the posts recommending the 5.4L option with the heavier duty tranny and rear and I would go this route if the budget allowed. I don’t plan to do a lot of towing and the max would probably be about 4500 lbs.
Given there’s probably a 4.6 in my future, what kind of horsepower gains can be made with a programmer/tuner and minor bolt-ons at a later time? Would it be enough to split the difference with the 5.4, say around 265 hp?
A side note, since Ford is currently pushing the 2006 4.6L with the rebate, will they likely offer a similar rebate on leftover 5.4L once the 4.6L are gone?
Thanks
Given there’s probably a 4.6 in my future, what kind of horsepower gains can be made with a programmer/tuner and minor bolt-ons at a later time? Would it be enough to split the difference with the 5.4, say around 265 hp?
A side note, since Ford is currently pushing the 2006 4.6L with the rebate, will they likely offer a similar rebate on leftover 5.4L once the 4.6L are gone?
Thanks
http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f...r=06&zip=70433
I dont know if the above link will work from here, but if you start out at fordvehicles.com and work to trucks, there is a incentives/financing button on the left that will bring you to the proper site.
I bought my 4x4 crew 5.4 5/01/06 and I got literally right at 10k off the sticker. Stickered for 39,XXX paid 29,997 plus TTL.
Take a look at edmunds.com as well. They have info on invoice prices and rebates. If you come in informed, it is easier to push what you want. I dont look to get anything for free, but I do want a very reasonable deal.
OH, on fordvehicles.com you can also search dealer inventory. Very cool feature. My truck was the only one in SE la that was configed the way I wanted. Made the deal over email and picked up the truck with very little problems.
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Freshman User
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All the local dealers were pushing the 4.6L because of the additional rebates. This was based on Aug's rebates so I don't know what has changed for Sept. They only had four 4.6L and over 30 5.4L.
MSRP on my truck was 31,900 and they knocked off 11,050.
The 5.4 I wanted was 33,100 (diff was engine and capt chairs) and they would only knock of 8K.
They started at invoice and deducted hold back on both trucks. They told me the remaining difference was the rebates. Either way I got a nearly $32K truck for just under $21K.
MSRP on my truck was 31,900 and they knocked off 11,050.
The 5.4 I wanted was 33,100 (diff was engine and capt chairs) and they would only knock of 8K.
They started at invoice and deducted hold back on both trucks. They told me the remaining difference was the rebates. Either way I got a nearly $32K truck for just under $21K.