Just saw this tonight... We need to stop them now..

This article has some very good points...

Read for yourself

http://autos.aol.com/article/general...16150109990001

 

Gee, I wonder if Ford and Firestone would have as much mud on their names if there were EDR's in Explorers....

Overloaded, 90mph and no seatbelts wouldn't be seen as Ford's fault.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. The way people abuse it, we are bound to see more of this.

Hope it gets batted down.

 

Well, this news is not new news at all but in fact it just has another spin/tone on it. So let's say you are driving legally and some psycho tee bones you at an intersection where you had the green light; it sure would be nice to have that black box technology clear you of any guilt as well as establish fault of the other driver.

 

Absolutely, CowboyBilly. Driving has seriously gone downhill even in the 15 years I've been driving. Everyone knows they can pretty much speed, drive dangerously and break other traffic laws at will, with little fear of getting caught and/or fined. Besides, we're still killing about 40,000 of ourselves every year on the road. Far fewer than that die on airplanes, but they have black boxes. And, we spend tons of money on other things that may only kill a few hundred of us per year.

I honestly don't care if Big Brother knows where my vehicles are. I don't have anything to hide...yet...

Jason

 

I have issues with the writer of this "story" :

"2008 -- the year a proposed requirement that Event Data Recorders (EDRs) become mandatory standard equipment in all new cars and trucks"

all new cars and trucks already use EDRs as standard equipment to determine:

1. crash speed, so that a shopping cart hitting your bumper in the parking lot does not set off the airbags
2. some airbag systems(on high-end cars) have EDRs to determine how fast and to what volume the bag be inflated based on the weight of the person in the seat & what position the adjustable seat has been moved to(how far away or close to the steering wheel & height of the seat) as well as if that person was buckled in or not
3. ABS computer monitors speeds at each wheel to determine whether to apply brakes or not(not to mention stability control on the new Mustang & Corvette etc...)
4. 1, 2, & 3 have 5 second(or longer) memories so after the crash the factors can be analyzed by the factory to determine if their vehicle performed as expected


"EDRs are "black boxes" -- just like airplanes have. They can record a wide variety of things -- including how fast you drive and whether you "buckle-up for safety."

the 4 points I mentioned above constantly monitor how fast you drive, they just don't record it...


"...EDRs to be installed in every new vehicle beginning with model year 2008 -- on the theory that the information will help crash investigators more accurately determine the hows and whys of accidents."

sounds like all they want to do is increase the memory on the devices already in the vehicles we drive so investigators have minutes of information instead of seconds


"But EDRs could -- and likely will be -- used for other purposes as well.
Tied into GPS navigation computers..."

this paragraph is pure speculation on the writers part


"If you think this is just a dark-minded paranoiac vision, think again. Rental car companies have already deployed a very similar system of onboard electronic monitoring to identify customers who dare to drive faster than the posted limit -- and automatically tap them with a "surcharge"

this writer has no understanding of how the rental companies use this system. they "tap them with a 'surcharge'" if they drive the car faster than the specified speed in the rental agreement which could be any MPH the rental company wants


"Already, 15-20 percent of all the cars and trucks in service have EDRs; most of these are General Motors vehicles. GM has been installing "black boxes" in its new cars and trucks since about 1996 as part of the Supplemental Restraint (air bag) system."

this should have been mentioned at the START of the article so the writer didn't sound so much like a conspiracy nut but I guess sensationalism sells articles...


"But if you get edgy thinking about the government -- and our friends in corporate America -- being able to monitor where we go and how we go whenever they feel like checking in on us, take the time to write a "Thanks, but no thanks" letter to NHTSA at http://dms.dot.gov/"

oh, I stand corrected, I guess he is a conspiracy nut


my personal opinion is that the "black boxes" are probably a good idea as long as they are not tied into GPS and do not have a feature that allows the vehicle be shut down from a distance. I know some lawmaker will get the idea that it would be wonderful for the police to be able to send a shut-down code to your car, but I also know that as soon as the police get that code so will the criminals...

EDIT: am I starting to sound like greywolf?

 

That would be good if that was all they used it for. I would guess that the insurance compnies would just use it to get out of paying on claims just as Ford is doing now with warranty work...

 

I just put another layer of tin foil on my head...

 

They need them on airplanes because when they crash there is nothing left of the evidence to say for sure what went wrong.

We are killing ourselves not only because of not following the rules of the road, but mainly because the cars today do not have any room to absorb a crash. Even a 30 MPH crash can crush the occupants..

You don't care now, but when they start mailing you an insurance cancellation notice or a premium increase because they have data that shows you are a high risk. Then lets see what happens and it will be to late...

 

True- kind of like the news over here that by 2010 all auto manufacturers are going to be required to have brake unterlock shift equipment... Who dosn't have that already- any newer automatic I've been in I've had to have my brake depressed to shift out of park.

If anyone thinks there aren't some type of EDR's in these trucks already, well...

 

You don't think an Insurance company wouldn't want this data to raise your premiums or cancel you as a high risk"

Isn't Ford using this technology to determine if a chip was installed so they can void the warranty? (Previous posts on this subject)

I don't have a problem with rental car companies doing it. It is their vehicle.. I want to have the choice as to having it in my vehicle. Also I want to be able to remove it if I do not want it...


That is why we should be worried about these things. Once you give up your right to choose they can then use it for other purposes with your knowledge.
And you are right the lawmaker will see it as a way to raise money and they will say it is a good thing. What do you think of cameras at intersections that snap a picture of your car then they send you a ticket. You have no recourse, because you gave up your rights when you allowed them....

 

GM hashad these for years, This isnt news by any means.

as far as people tracking people through them,

the FBI used to use onstar to track people, Again, not news

 

There taking away our freedom of choice slowly. The whole topic snowballs in my minds...

I'm just staggered by the GPS thing, I mean when you think of the database that would have to be compiled of the whole country!!! to keep track of what roads are what limits(like 30MPH corners and school zones) at what times of day(dif sppeeds for Big Rigs around corners and down hills at night). Then if a city decided to change the speed on an upgraded feeder road and it wasn't updated in the database there would be a lot of undeserved tickets being automatically mailed out. The amount of money and chaos that would cause to fight those tickets...(admittedly I'm not sure which department sets road speeds but I think its different between federal and municipal levels)

How many more satelites will they would need?

How many vehicles are on the roads now?

Is there even room for this thing on a motorcycle?

How many cars are they gonna track?

How do you track a bicyclist who is crossing a road illegaly?

How long before snowmobiles, ATV's, boats, jetskis, mini-bikes(stay out of the national parks), disabled people scooters, disabled people powered wheel-chairs(so they can't stage a gettaway from the retiremnet castle), hang-gliders(why not), pedal-cars(your son/daughter might ride into little Timmy across the road), lawnmowers(so your neighbor can't sue you for mowing down his roses), RV trailers, boats on trailers, campers(so you can't drive off if you've overloaded the trucks weight rating) have these EDR's in them???

When they start tracking you, the insurance companies will make use of it and prohibit certain drivers for driving dif times of day if at all. The drivers license will become similar to a grocery store card, I'm serious. Someone will build an interface in all the new vehicles that you swipe your card(DL) in before the car will start & move(and check that your seatbelt is on with foot on the brake) and being that the computer is tied into engine and transmission(and steroe by that time) the comp will use the DL card info to determine this person is restricted to no music and 30MPH during the day & not drive at night.

It should NEVER come to that! the stereo is needed to hear if the traffic is cleared yet and the stupid restrictions would prevent emergency driving your drunk friend who hurt himself to the hospital in a timely manner(I'm not thinking of speeding but rather just doing the limit and being able to pass someone else not doing the limit)

and if they restrict your limit how are you ever going to be able to pass a Rig on an uphill passing lane!!!(I live near mountains)

We need our passing gears and the ability to use them!

Will they then design a retro-fit unit for older vehicles to "fit into" the system because how can you get accurate results from a crash with only one side of the story?

and then we are just one step away from magnetized highways or whatever they will be called when all the vehicles will be computer formation driven to prevent accidents and we just become animals in a pet carrier in the belly of the road system...

There's too much in my head to get it all out at once....

Now where did I put that hat? What, macaroni for dinner again?

 

As against as I am at all this, I must say I like RED LIGHT cameras. I DO NOT like that when they are installed the timing of how long the yellow light lasts gets changed from 4 seconds to 3 seconds. I see the red light camera as an indisputable violation, the vehicle entered the intersection after the light turned red, simple as that.

Or not, as I'm not sure how a right-turn lane would be monitored...

Here in British Columbia we've had red light cameras for years and it has helped reduce intersection accidents. Whoever runs the red-light camera program is pretty smart because only a small percentage of the intersections have the camers, the rest just have empty boxes that look like camers and the cameras are moved around every couple of weeks to new locations.

At the same time the red-light cameras were brought out photo-radar was introduced to catch speeders. At first it was only a few vans on the side roads and then they increaed there presence everywhere and eventually it was too troublesome from people fighting the tickets and not paying them and whether or not the OWNER of the vehicle should get the ticket(how do they know who was driving?). There was even an article in the paper that had an interview in it of how a police officer got out of paying his ticket!

So, yeah, no more photo-radar but we still have red-light cameras.

 

this seems like a stupid law designed by the lawyers and safty freeks who put zillions of warnings on everything out there (ex. dont stick your finger in an electrical outlet). yep safty is good but this all seems like too much overkill that is just designed so that people cant track you and fine you for doing minor things wrong that everyone does every day. although i do think the writer of the article put too much of his opinion in it about the gps stuff, this law should not be passed.

btw.. if by some odd chance it is passed and becomes a problem, i bet someone will figure out how to git rid of the black box thing and put one in that puts out fake numbers so everything can be like normal again, just like the end of every simpsons episode.

 

Yeah! What he said....