Police Offered Prizes for Most Tickets
#1
08-04-2006, 04:53 PM
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Police Offered Prizes for Most Tickets
Police Offered Prizes for Most Tickets
CHARLOTTE, N.C., Aug. 3, 2006
Charlotte-Mecklenburg police supervisors offered prizes to officers who wrote the most traffic tickets during an eight-day period over the July Fourth holiday.
Five officers from the department's North Division earned $10 gift certificates to Dick's Sporting Goods, although officials Wednesday couldn't say how many tickets were issued between July 1-8.
Police Chief Darrel Stephens and Maj. John Diggs, who oversees the division, said they were not aware of the contest until they were contacted Wednesday by The Charlotte Observer.
"I don't think there is anything inherently evil or bad about rewarding officers for putting in extra effort for a good cause," Diggs said. "I don't want anybody getting a ticket when they shouldn't get one. But I think they were all valid. I don't think anybody is overly inspired by a $10 gift certificate."
In a memo obtained by The Observer, Sgt. Mark Faulkenberry told other officers that the goal of the campaign was to make roads safer.
"I am asking each of you to issue as many citations as possible during that week in an effort to increase visibility, slow down speeders, and keep our streets more safe through traffic enforcement," Faulkenberry wrote. "The highest producer from each shift will receive a gift certificate from Dick's."
But George Laughrun, a local defense attorney, said ticketing should not be a game.
"It goes to credibility," Laughrun said. "I know it's $10, but it's the principle of the thing."
********************************
Somehow the idea of awarding the prize for the ticket competition at a place called "Dick's" just seemly hugely approriate.
CHARLOTTE, N.C., Aug. 3, 2006
Charlotte-Mecklenburg police supervisors offered prizes to officers who wrote the most traffic tickets during an eight-day period over the July Fourth holiday.
Five officers from the department's North Division earned $10 gift certificates to Dick's Sporting Goods, although officials Wednesday couldn't say how many tickets were issued between July 1-8.
Police Chief Darrel Stephens and Maj. John Diggs, who oversees the division, said they were not aware of the contest until they were contacted Wednesday by The Charlotte Observer.
"I don't think there is anything inherently evil or bad about rewarding officers for putting in extra effort for a good cause," Diggs said. "I don't want anybody getting a ticket when they shouldn't get one. But I think they were all valid. I don't think anybody is overly inspired by a $10 gift certificate."
In a memo obtained by The Observer, Sgt. Mark Faulkenberry told other officers that the goal of the campaign was to make roads safer.
"I am asking each of you to issue as many citations as possible during that week in an effort to increase visibility, slow down speeders, and keep our streets more safe through traffic enforcement," Faulkenberry wrote. "The highest producer from each shift will receive a gift certificate from Dick's."
But George Laughrun, a local defense attorney, said ticketing should not be a game.
"It goes to credibility," Laughrun said. "I know it's $10, but it's the principle of the thing."
********************************
Somehow the idea of awarding the prize for the ticket competition at a place called "Dick's" just seemly hugely approriate.
#2
08-04-2006, 05:58 PM
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#4
08-04-2006, 06:19 PM
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If people were following the rules they learned in Driver's Education they wouldn't have to worry about getting a ticket.
Its not a game but officers let alot slide when it comes to ticketable offenses, this is from the horses mouth, and I know I've gotten away with alot.
People just need to suck it up, pay attention, and follow the rules and everything will be peachey....
Its not a game but officers let alot slide when it comes to ticketable offenses, this is from the horses mouth, and I know I've gotten away with alot.
People just need to suck it up, pay attention, and follow the rules and everything will be peachey....
#5
08-04-2006, 06:23 PM
Have a got a "letters to the editor" for you that I read today 
EDIT:From the Ottawa Sun ( Ottawa Is our Nation's Capital City)
Re "Getting down to speed," by Anne Howland (Aug. 1): Anne Howland's plea to obey speed limits would be a valid one if only posted speed limits were reasonable. Speed limits that reflect the maximum safe speeds -- the highest rate of speed that can safely be driven on a clear, sunny day in light traffic -- would be reasonably enforceable.
The current system keeps limits artificially low, leaving drivers to guess how much they can speed before incurring the wrath of the badged tax collectors.
This is cheaper and easier for the provincial government than setting reasonable speed limits, and allowing the police to judge whether drivers are acting recklessly and dangerously. It also avoids the PR nightmare of raising speed limits, and then having to respond to the howls of knee-jerk reactionaries when deaths occur.
Our province sets speed limits based on dollars, optics and lowest-common-denominator logic. Flashing our high beams to warn oncoming motorists of a roadside tax grab is the least we can do.
Duncan Read
Reply from editor
The law, for whatever reason, is the law)
ALL:
Do you think for even a minute that these police officiers were "Set-Up" by Dick's ?
EDIT:From the Ottawa Sun ( Ottawa Is our Nation's Capital City)
Re "Getting down to speed," by Anne Howland (Aug. 1): Anne Howland's plea to obey speed limits would be a valid one if only posted speed limits were reasonable. Speed limits that reflect the maximum safe speeds -- the highest rate of speed that can safely be driven on a clear, sunny day in light traffic -- would be reasonably enforceable.
The current system keeps limits artificially low, leaving drivers to guess how much they can speed before incurring the wrath of the badged tax collectors.
This is cheaper and easier for the provincial government than setting reasonable speed limits, and allowing the police to judge whether drivers are acting recklessly and dangerously. It also avoids the PR nightmare of raising speed limits, and then having to respond to the howls of knee-jerk reactionaries when deaths occur.
Our province sets speed limits based on dollars, optics and lowest-common-denominator logic. Flashing our high beams to warn oncoming motorists of a roadside tax grab is the least we can do.
Duncan Read
Reply from editor
The law, for whatever reason, is the law) ALL:
Do you think for even a minute that these police officiers were "Set-Up" by Dick's ?
Last edited by Mil1ion; 08-04-2006 at 06:26 PM.
#6
08-04-2006, 09:04 PM
#7
08-04-2006, 09:13 PM
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As far as I'm concerned, if the cops have time to sit on the side of the road waiting for someone going 10 over the limit, then we have way to many cops. Speeders and whatever else be the traffic infraction are everywhere; just take a five mile drive and you will see violators abound. Now on the contest, how does it really benefit the public to pull over granny driving 27 in a 25? This is what the cop contest was encouraging, amongst many other things. Speedometers are not dead on the money all of the time, they have an acceptable tolerance. Great, granny thinks she's being law abiding and some young punk cop wanting to get his $10 gift certificate for some "Dicks" whatever is busy hassling her while in the meantime another mans house is being broken into or a woman is being raped in a park (ie, real crimes). Of course, the money is in traffic tickets and not busting a burgler or rapist so obviously the cops go for the easy stuff, given a choice. And some cops do wonder why public opinion of their service is not as good as they would like it to be..............
Last edited by CowboyBilly9Mile; 08-04-2006 at 09:17 PM.
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#8
08-04-2006, 10:34 PM
Don't forget (most cops do forget this or never taught it but if they actually read the manual they would know) radar guns have a +/- factor also, this factor begins to change as the temp, humidity, wind (yes wind believe it or not) and time of day change. then the margin of error actually increases with every hour since the last time the gun was calibrated. Truth is most radar guns in use today can be off as much as 15%, heck even laser has to be calibrated within the past couple hours to be accurate, and then it has a +/-2% immediatly after calibration, that means 1mph at 50 yet I have seen tickets written by officers for 1 over, they then claim that they clocked them with the calibrated speedometer in thier car, well the speedo in thier car must be recalibrated every 1000 miles to accomidate tire wear assuming they did not run it hard (more often if they drove anytime at high speeds) and this also is in the manuals, yet most cars that I know of are calibrated once a year. (how do you think these lawyers that get people off of traffic tickets do it?) Thats why they say no speeding ticket can not be won against, a good attorney will start asking questions from the manual of the radar gun used, and I would venture a guess that less than 5% of the officers have ever even read that manual let alone know any of the specs.
Example for misuse of police for stupid stuff like this happened last year in the quad cities, they decided it was time to really work the click it or ticket campaign, so on the interstate they put all but 3 officers from davenport and bettendorf on the interstate (the 3 is what i heard) there was 39 chase cars on I-80, and I-280 plus the officers on teh overpass with binoculars catching those big time criminals that don't wear thier seatbelts, in the mean time they had 4 bank robberies that day 3 of which have never been solved, what a concept appearently your better off robbing a bank than not wearing your seatbelt.
Example for misuse of police for stupid stuff like this happened last year in the quad cities, they decided it was time to really work the click it or ticket campaign, so on the interstate they put all but 3 officers from davenport and bettendorf on the interstate (the 3 is what i heard) there was 39 chase cars on I-80, and I-280 plus the officers on teh overpass with binoculars catching those big time criminals that don't wear thier seatbelts, in the mean time they had 4 bank robberies that day 3 of which have never been solved, what a concept appearently your better off robbing a bank than not wearing your seatbelt.
#9
08-04-2006, 10:40 PM
Posting Guru
That kind of **** gives cops a bad name and PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have a source for this info? I would like to read it.
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
Don't forget (most cops do forget this or never taught it but if they actually read the manual they would know) radar guns have a +/- factor also, this factor begins to change as the temp, humidity, wind (yes wind believe it or not) and time of day change. then the margin of error actually increases with every hour since the last time the gun was calibrated. Truth is most radar guns in use today can be off as much as 15%, heck even laser has to be calibrated within the past couple hours to be accurate, and then it has a +/-2% immediatly after calibration, that means 1mph at 50 yet I have seen tickets written by officers for 1 over, they then claim that they clocked them with the calibrated speedometer in thier car, well the speedo in thier car must be recalibrated every 1000 miles to accomidate tire wear assuming they did not run it hard (more often if they drove anytime at high speeds) and this also is in the manuals, yet most cars that I know of are calibrated once a year. (how do you think these lawyers that get people off of traffic tickets do it?) Thats why they say no speeding ticket can not be won against, a good attorney will start asking questions from the manual of the radar gun used, and I would venture a guess that less than 5% of the officers have ever even read that manual let alone know any of the specs.
Last edited by CAFordDude; 08-04-2006 at 10:44 PM.
#10
08-04-2006, 10:44 PM
This forum reminds me of my last ticket. Supposedly 62 mph in a 45 zone, right turn signal on attempting to make a sharp 90 degree turn into a side road. Needless to say, I was driving a SWB F-150, with a four inch lift and 36 inch tires. I think that that is next to near impossible without rolling.
The Judge also thought the same. I got to watch the cop get his butt chewed royally for the citation by the judge.
The Judge also thought the same. I got to watch the cop get his butt chewed royally for the citation by the judge.
#11
08-04-2006, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by CAFordDude
You have a source for this info? I would like to read it.
But here is one site that tells how to beat a speeding ticket, read down about what to do in court it mentions some of it.
http://www.blurofinsanity.com/Speeding.html
And here is some other interesting reading
http://www.radarbusters.com/support/...r/mistakes.asp
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-btrust.html
#12
08-04-2006, 11:35 PM
In most cities I know of there are 3 different kinds of police officers.
Specially hired/trained constables for operating photo radar
Traffic cops that ONLY deal with traffic
and Jursidiction Police that handle all the other calls.
ie:Break-in's,bank robberies,Domestic disputes,etc
Traffic cops don't do anything but traffic unless there is something major and they need man power.
Specially hired/trained constables for operating photo radar
Traffic cops that ONLY deal with traffic
and Jursidiction Police that handle all the other calls.
ie:Break-in's,bank robberies,Domestic disputes,etc
Traffic cops don't do anything but traffic unless there is something major and they need man power.
#13
08-04-2006, 11:57 PM
Posting Guru
I'll preface this by saying that I do not know anything about laws in any state other then California. I am currently certified by P.O.S.T (Police Officers Standards and Training) in CA as well as NHTSA (National Highway Transportation and Saftey Administration) in the use of stationary and moving Radar guns. REQUIREMENTS to operate radar in CA.
Radar guns are REQUIRED, and the CA courts accept, to be calibrated once a year by a certified technician. NO police officer is qualified to Calibrate radar unless they have specifically sent to school for it. similar to an armorers school for guns. My requirements to use the radar are that before each use and periodically during each use I am to check the calibration of the radar by using a tuning fork as well as internal self tests. If the radar gun registers even 1mph off of the tuning fork it is not calibrated properly and can NOT be used in courtroom testimony. There is NO margin of error. In my 5 years of running radar my yearly calibration has NEVER been off. It has always been dead on ***** acurate. Laser radar has the exact same requirements and requires additional training on the officers part to be qualified in it's use. Neither temperature, wind, humidity or time of day effect a radar's ability to do it's job. Radar emits a radio wave, waits for it's return and does a bunch of fancy internal math to calibrate the speed of a vehicle. There are things that do effect radar but they are all related to human error. Like shooting a gun shooting a radar is all about your "Sight Picture" what are you looking at what else is around it ie;microwave towers, wind turbines, cooling fan, obstructions other vehicles etc... If you have a good sight picture then you will have a good reading.
As far as vehicle speedometer calibration so you mean that I need to have my personal vehicle calibrated every 1000 miles to make sure it is accurate? How would I ever know how fast I was going otherwise? or are you saying that at 80mph my police car may actually register 79 or God forbid 78? What if it said 75? or even 85? Spedometers and radar guns are only used to confirm my visual estimation of a vehicles speed. Not make the 100% determination.
In California we have two speed laws. 1)The maximum speed law (22349 CVC) which says that anytime a max speed is posted (mostly on highways) be it 65mph or 75mph that even .000000000000001mph over that limit is a violation of the law case closed your done. 2)basic speed law (22350 CVC) which means that there is a posted or Prima Facie speed limit which is a speed recomendation. I need to prove that whatever speed the vehicle is traveling at it is unsafe for conditions be it curves in the roadway or driveways or pedestrians or whatever. I could cite for 25mph in a posted 35mph if I could prove that 25mph was unsafe by that same token I could let a 45mph in a 35mph go if it was not unsafe.
I did not see any of the stuff from your first post in any of your refrences MB. Even in the article "Blind Trust" those errors are related to human error not the fault of the unit. Even beam width is human error. Know how wide your beam is at what distance and you will be ok.
Lawyers do not scare me in court. I know the law and the requirements. Lawyers can throw off unprepared officers or unqualified officers but not one that has done their homework.
As for your first refrence. I agree 100% with it. When I go to court it is MY job to prove you are guilty not your job to prove you are innocent. If I am unprepared and do not do my job then you deserve to win. But come prepared to fight. You had better know the law as well as if not better then me. In CA if, as an officer, I am subpoened and I do not show up for court it is called contempt of court. I can be fined and or jailed for disobeying a subpoena, and I don't like either of those things so I show up. Are there times when for whatever reason the officer can not show up and is excused and the ticket is dismissed, you bet. But they happen less then you would think. As far as not remembering the ticket? If you do not make good notes on your ticket then yes you will. Make good notes though and that is all you need.
****On a side note**** If you get a ticket and go to court and the officer is reviewing notes on the back of his ticket, YOU can review them. Ask to see them and see what he is working with. Is it blank and he is basing this ticket on the hundreds of other tickets he writes or does he actually have notes about this particular ticket. If it is blank you stand a better chance of winning.
Like with every job there are good cops that actually give a crap about what they are doing and there are bad cops that see the overtime dollar signs of ticket writing. Do me a favor. If you get a ticket and go to court and the officer is unprepared,NAIL HIM TO THE WALL. Maybe he will learn and not write crappy tickets.
Radar guns are REQUIRED, and the CA courts accept, to be calibrated once a year by a certified technician. NO police officer is qualified to Calibrate radar unless they have specifically sent to school for it. similar to an armorers school for guns. My requirements to use the radar are that before each use and periodically during each use I am to check the calibration of the radar by using a tuning fork as well as internal self tests. If the radar gun registers even 1mph off of the tuning fork it is not calibrated properly and can NOT be used in courtroom testimony. There is NO margin of error. In my 5 years of running radar my yearly calibration has NEVER been off. It has always been dead on ***** acurate. Laser radar has the exact same requirements and requires additional training on the officers part to be qualified in it's use. Neither temperature, wind, humidity or time of day effect a radar's ability to do it's job. Radar emits a radio wave, waits for it's return and does a bunch of fancy internal math to calibrate the speed of a vehicle. There are things that do effect radar but they are all related to human error. Like shooting a gun shooting a radar is all about your "Sight Picture" what are you looking at what else is around it ie;microwave towers, wind turbines, cooling fan, obstructions other vehicles etc... If you have a good sight picture then you will have a good reading.
As far as vehicle speedometer calibration so you mean that I need to have my personal vehicle calibrated every 1000 miles to make sure it is accurate? How would I ever know how fast I was going otherwise? or are you saying that at 80mph my police car may actually register 79 or God forbid 78? What if it said 75? or even 85? Spedometers and radar guns are only used to confirm my visual estimation of a vehicles speed. Not make the 100% determination.
In California we have two speed laws. 1)The maximum speed law (22349 CVC) which says that anytime a max speed is posted (mostly on highways) be it 65mph or 75mph that even .000000000000001mph over that limit is a violation of the law case closed your done. 2)basic speed law (22350 CVC) which means that there is a posted or Prima Facie speed limit which is a speed recomendation. I need to prove that whatever speed the vehicle is traveling at it is unsafe for conditions be it curves in the roadway or driveways or pedestrians or whatever. I could cite for 25mph in a posted 35mph if I could prove that 25mph was unsafe by that same token I could let a 45mph in a 35mph go if it was not unsafe.
I did not see any of the stuff from your first post in any of your refrences MB. Even in the article "Blind Trust" those errors are related to human error not the fault of the unit. Even beam width is human error. Know how wide your beam is at what distance and you will be ok.
Lawyers do not scare me in court. I know the law and the requirements. Lawyers can throw off unprepared officers or unqualified officers but not one that has done their homework.
As for your first refrence. I agree 100% with it. When I go to court it is MY job to prove you are guilty not your job to prove you are innocent. If I am unprepared and do not do my job then you deserve to win. But come prepared to fight. You had better know the law as well as if not better then me. In CA if, as an officer, I am subpoened and I do not show up for court it is called contempt of court. I can be fined and or jailed for disobeying a subpoena, and I don't like either of those things so I show up. Are there times when for whatever reason the officer can not show up and is excused and the ticket is dismissed, you bet. But they happen less then you would think. As far as not remembering the ticket? If you do not make good notes on your ticket then yes you will. Make good notes though and that is all you need.
****On a side note**** If you get a ticket and go to court and the officer is reviewing notes on the back of his ticket, YOU can review them. Ask to see them and see what he is working with. Is it blank and he is basing this ticket on the hundreds of other tickets he writes or does he actually have notes about this particular ticket. If it is blank you stand a better chance of winning.
Like with every job there are good cops that actually give a crap about what they are doing and there are bad cops that see the overtime dollar signs of ticket writing. Do me a favor. If you get a ticket and go to court and the officer is unprepared,NAIL HIM TO THE WALL. Maybe he will learn and not write crappy tickets.
Last edited by CAFordDude; 08-05-2006 at 12:00 AM.
#14
08-05-2006, 01:09 AM
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#15
08-05-2006, 01:57 AM
Aaron, I have had debates with you both agreeing and disagreeing and have nothing but respect for you so I will not challenge what you are saying, but the specs on the radar guns are actually much, much worse than the brocheres they publish, the radar you are using is about 10 yrs behind military stuff and even the current millitary stuff is not as accurate as people think. most of it is accurate to within 2%, it's been shown that the tuning forks if handled properly and used at the correct tempature can be as accurate as 1% but if the temp changes by 10 degrees that goes to 3% and gets worse from there. The military writeups on the stuff that current police radar is based on is still classified (they still use it in some aircraft and weapons) but it was never considered perfect just the best in the world, there is a difference. Now the fact that the courts accept it is not saying much with our courts lately (I know you have seen some of the jokes coming out of our court system) as to the laws from other states it's pretty bad, here in Iowa we have a right to speed law, that says any ticket up to 10 over in a 35-55 zone actually doesn't go on your record, (it actually does but it's different than a moving violation hard to explain) my understanding is they put that into affect due to losing to many battles over the accuracy of radar so they don't nail you until it's atleast 10mph over, that removes all doubt and makes the error factor basically irrelevent. Other states (I don't have names or the codes for this, just seeing and hearing it from different people so it's second hand info) have basically a nothing under 3mph or 5mph over for the same reason, it's too easy to defeat radar accuracy.
Now as to the bad officers using bad techniques thats another story and they need to be hammered everytime, I actually got pulled over by an officer saying I was running 74 in a 55 (I was speeding but no where near that speed I was doing 63 but that is not the point of this one) when I questioned him on it, he pulled out his laser gun and showed me the speed, the rest of the story is he was running down the road while using a laser. He didn't give me a ticket which is a good thing cause that would not have looked good in court for him. I also nailed on in Oregon said I was doing 72 in a 55 (actual speed was about 60 or maybe even less he based it on the fact I was passing another vehicle real fast what he didn't take into consideration is the other vehicle was doing 45mph) I actually didn't nail him another persons lawyer did, when they noticed that there was 24 people in the court room, that had all gotten tickets from this officer within 4 hrs on the same day, within 5 miles of each other all doing 72 in a 55, the judge hadn't noticed til it was brought up and found that the odds of 24 people all doing exactly the same speed in one day was almost worse than winning the lottery, the officer is no longer a police officer anywhere as far as I know. I usually don't aurgue with officers that pull me over, don't see a point and rarely do I bother to go to court on a ticket (if I got one I usually deserved it although I haven't in about 6 yrs, just trying to be good and keep my record clear, getting old I guess) but I will fight everyone I don't deserve, the last one I fought was an officer in Wyoming wrote me for 92 in a 75 which is pretty good since the truck had a max speed at redline of the engine in top gear of 81mph, I didn't get totally out of it, but the judge did drop it to 81 in a 75 so not a serious violation. BTW he showed me the radar lock on his gun at 92, I was actually doing 78 on a slight downhill, and he had supposedly just checked the calibration less than an hour before, the gun was less than 3 months old so there was no reason it should have been off, but I can gaurentee you it was.
Now as to the bad officers using bad techniques thats another story and they need to be hammered everytime, I actually got pulled over by an officer saying I was running 74 in a 55 (I was speeding but no where near that speed I was doing 63 but that is not the point of this one) when I questioned him on it, he pulled out his laser gun and showed me the speed, the rest of the story is he was running down the road while using a laser. He didn't give me a ticket which is a good thing cause that would not have looked good in court for him. I also nailed on in Oregon said I was doing 72 in a 55 (actual speed was about 60 or maybe even less he based it on the fact I was passing another vehicle real fast what he didn't take into consideration is the other vehicle was doing 45mph) I actually didn't nail him another persons lawyer did, when they noticed that there was 24 people in the court room, that had all gotten tickets from this officer within 4 hrs on the same day, within 5 miles of each other all doing 72 in a 55, the judge hadn't noticed til it was brought up and found that the odds of 24 people all doing exactly the same speed in one day was almost worse than winning the lottery, the officer is no longer a police officer anywhere as far as I know. I usually don't aurgue with officers that pull me over, don't see a point and rarely do I bother to go to court on a ticket (if I got one I usually deserved it although I haven't in about 6 yrs, just trying to be good and keep my record clear, getting old I guess) but I will fight everyone I don't deserve, the last one I fought was an officer in Wyoming wrote me for 92 in a 75 which is pretty good since the truck had a max speed at redline of the engine in top gear of 81mph, I didn't get totally out of it, but the judge did drop it to 81 in a 75 so not a serious violation. BTW he showed me the radar lock on his gun at 92, I was actually doing 78 on a slight downhill, and he had supposedly just checked the calibration less than an hour before, the gun was less than 3 months old so there was no reason it should have been off, but I can gaurentee you it was.