390 Issues after drunken doughnuts.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
I would do a differential or leak down compression check, percentage bleed down is a lot more accurate than a standard compression check.
Aviation standards which I worked under (1830 & 2800 Pratt's) must have different standards than backyard mechanics or those ASAE "Technicians". No disrespect as there are many talented members on this forum. JMO's
.....=o&o>.....
Aviation standards which I worked under (1830 & 2800 Pratt's) must have different standards than backyard mechanics or those ASAE "Technicians". No disrespect as there are many talented members on this forum. JMO's
.....=o&o>.....
FE "Freakin Expensive"
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 4
From: Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Well JMO..If your Oil pressure runs up to 100psi at start up....I'am just wondering if it in the pressure relief valve in the Oil pump..and it picked up a piece of crap from something?
Russ
Russ
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: Port Angeles WA
Ok so I just did an intake manifold vacume pressure test by removing the break booster line and threading in a barbed brass fitting in its place and then shuving the guage hose into the barbed brass fitting.
The guage has a green or "normal" range which is from 18 to 22. After reaching normal operating temp and kicking the idle down to about 700 rpm, the gauge is flickerking between 18 and 20. Its flickering VERY fast. Now I have been told that on a perfect running engine, the guage should not be flickering, or moving at all. It should consistantly stay on one spot, my Ford is not doing this, its flickering very fast.
Can anyone point me in the right dirrection as to what this mean? I am starting to lean towards a colapsed lifter or maybe a sticky valve.
Thank you guys again for all the help on this
The guage has a green or "normal" range which is from 18 to 22. After reaching normal operating temp and kicking the idle down to about 700 rpm, the gauge is flickerking between 18 and 20. Its flickering VERY fast. Now I have been told that on a perfect running engine, the guage should not be flickering, or moving at all. It should consistantly stay on one spot, my Ford is not doing this, its flickering very fast.
Can anyone point me in the right dirrection as to what this mean? I am starting to lean towards a colapsed lifter or maybe a sticky valve.
Thank you guys again for all the help on this
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
Sounds to me that you tagged and bent a intake valve. Do a ignition ground out on each cylinder to locate the faulty cylinder, gauge will show this. With a pressure bleed down test you would hear a hiss thru the carb or out the tailpipe depending on a leaking or bent intake or exhaust valve.
Look at the bright side, you didn't kick rods and a rev limiter should be added to your motor.
.....=o&o>......
Look at the bright side, you didn't kick rods and a rev limiter should be added to your motor.
.....=o&o>......
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 355
Likes: 1
Pull the rockers. Put air into the cylinders. Listen for gross leaks at the tailpipe and at the intake - they should all sound about the same. If one hole had a real windstorm you know that valve is bent. No bad ones? On an FE it is possible to replace the lifters with with the intake installed using a lifter pulling tool, a telescoping magnet, a flashlight, several swear words, and a few beers - - you may want to limit the beers 
.
.
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: Port Angeles WA
Cool, when I had the rocker arm off the first time I noticed that it looks possible to pull the lifters without taking the intake manifold off. This happens to be an Edlebrock preformer manifold which compared to stock makes pulling the lifters even easier. I think I might stick with Ice tea though, beer is what got me into this mess in the first place. I am guessing there is no way to tell a bad lifter from a good one by just looking at it though right?
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 129
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From: Port Angeles WA
Ok I had a pro mechanic take a look at the truck to tell me whats wrong with it. He seems to think I flattened out my cam so I guess I am going to bite the bullet and replace the lifters and cam, and also probally a new high volume oil pump. Anyone have any reason I should, or should not do this?
Thanks again
Thanks again
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Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
How can a cam go flat in a few seconds of wild rpm's?
Worse I can see unless you ventilated the block or it's knocking from a spun bearing the pump bypass is scewed up is taged valves, bent pushrods (I have never bent one in over a million miles and a few stupid ones) or messed up lifters.
.....=o&o>.....
Worse I can see unless you ventilated the block or it's knocking from a spun bearing the pump bypass is scewed up is taged valves, bent pushrods (I have never bent one in over a million miles and a few stupid ones) or messed up lifters.
.....=o&o>.....
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 129
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From: Port Angeles WA
I am going to start the teardown on this tomorrow after work. I asked the mechanic how a cam lobe could get flattened after only a few high revs and he quickly changed his story to a possible bad lifter so who knows. I am not going to spend a dime until I break it down.
Pump Bypass? is this some type of safty in case the oil pump fails? For $35 I was thinking a high volume oil pump would be a good investment too?
Once last crazy thought I had was maybe a lifter came apart somehow and is not allowing one of the valves to open and close all the way and may also be blocking a oil passage.
Pump Bypass? is this some type of safty in case the oil pump fails? For $35 I was thinking a high volume oil pump would be a good investment too?
Once last crazy thought I had was maybe a lifter came apart somehow and is not allowing one of the valves to open and close all the way and may also be blocking a oil passage.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
Pump bypass is your pressure control plunger that has a spring which controls your oil pressure. I have had and see them stick in the bypass for low to no oil pressure as well stuck closed because some object jammed the plunger.
Best to pull the motor it's a lot better to work on and you can do a better job of rebuilding vs in the truck. Done right will yield many trouble free miles later.
.....=o&o>.....
Best to pull the motor it's a lot better to work on and you can do a better job of rebuilding vs in the truck. Done right will yield many trouble free miles later.
.....=o&o>.....
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Port Angeles WA
Ok so I tore the top end apart this evening and found that #6 intake and #7 exhaust lifters were pretty messed up. Compared to the other 14 these two were bowl shaped where the cam lobe rides on them. I took one of them apart just to see how they worked and the only thing keeping the flat part together was the spring inside. As soon as the spring came out the metal colapsed and opened up a dime sized hole.
Now I would rather not have to tear into the motor again in 6 months from now so would you guys suggest replacing the cam and lifters now while the motor is apart or just do to lifters? I can't pull the cam until I get a balancer puller but I plan to do this tomorrow evening. By the looks of the lifters I don't see how the cam could still be in great shape.
Now I would rather not have to tear into the motor again in 6 months from now so would you guys suggest replacing the cam and lifters now while the motor is apart or just do to lifters? I can't pull the cam until I get a balancer puller but I plan to do this tomorrow evening. By the looks of the lifters I don't see how the cam could still be in great shape.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
Are you going to pull the motor or do a in frame repair?
No matter what it's going to cost your a sizeable amount of money, best to pull it and change rings, bearings, cam and lifters besides washing out the block and all oil passages.
Build it right and get many more miles out of it instead of a patch job.
.....=o&o>.....
No matter what it's going to cost your a sizeable amount of money, best to pull it and change rings, bearings, cam and lifters besides washing out the block and all oil passages.
Build it right and get many more miles out of it instead of a patch job.
.....=o&o>.....
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
I forgot to mention, go thru the oil pump as your high oil pressure was wrong.
Completly disassemble clean and inspect the plunger, if good check end clearances then lap the gears, cover then pump body to tighten up end clearance. Debur everything, plan "B" is a new pump then repeat the above as new have crappy production clearances. Had two HV pumps, one with .008" end clearance and the other with a tapered body yielding .003" to .006". Basically "blueprint" any and all pumps not just the motor.
One company will sell you a blueprinted pump for high dollars but you can do the same thing yourself, costs a little time. Time or labor is cheap if it's your own. Install a ARP pump drive.
.....=o&o>.....
Completly disassemble clean and inspect the plunger, if good check end clearances then lap the gears, cover then pump body to tighten up end clearance. Debur everything, plan "B" is a new pump then repeat the above as new have crappy production clearances. Had two HV pumps, one with .008" end clearance and the other with a tapered body yielding .003" to .006". Basically "blueprint" any and all pumps not just the motor.
One company will sell you a blueprinted pump for high dollars but you can do the same thing yourself, costs a little time. Time or labor is cheap if it's your own. Install a ARP pump drive.
.....=o&o>.....