i recently left the portable refrigerator in my '02 Diesel Excursion on all night. Needless to say after three days, battery was dead. I called AAA towing service here in SoCal. The driver tried to hook up his truck cables, no success. He then added a portable battery Booster Pac, still not enough juice. Ended up calling another truck who hooked up his Booster Pac and the truck turned over and started.
Wondering does anybody have expierence with these Portable Jump Start booters packs with Diesels. I am think of caring some around in mine just in case.

 

I'll be intrested to hear myself. Imagine it takes more than a few amps to crank these guys over, especially once it gets cold. I have a 7.3 myself.

 

You probably shouldn't bother with those portable packs altogether. These engines require a serious amount of juice to even crank. I had the same problem back in September '03; it took two tow trucks, a portable battery pack, and about 20 minutes to get it going. Depending on how dead your batteriers are, they can suck the power clean out of those booster packs and leave you hanging. The only way to jump start these things is another diesel truck with some thick, heavy duty, jumper cables. If you use jumper cables meant for cars, you'll be out there awhile and you'll probably end up with some melted cables. Take it from someone who knows.......

 

Toreador_Diesel,
I agree the car version is not adquate for a desiel. Several companies offer heavy duty boosters. They claim can start Diesel Industrial equipment, Trucks, Tractors, etc.
Any thoughts.

J

 

My 10 year old was joking around the other day and told me that I could just jump myself if one of my batteries were to go dead...which got me wondering...could this be done if one of the batteries was good? I have always assumed that they are isolated from each other, but maybe not.

 

They are not isolated so they would both be dead.

I just killed my batteries a few days ago while spending the day installing my new AV setup. First thing I tried was the heavy duty portable jump start system and it did not even come close. Then I attached my battery charger that was a 60amp jump start mode. That almost worked, but was just a little short of what I needed. So, I just charged them for 10 minutes on the 30 amp turbo mode for the battery charger and that got it started.

I think one of the reason we can not easily jump start the diesel X is because of the glow plugs. They pull a lot of juice and eat up whatever is jumping you. We have 2 batteries for a reason and if they are both dead, it is not unreasonable to think it will take a lot to jump start it.

I managed to kill my batteries again the next day doing the same thing. This time, just to see, I attached two of the portable jump start systems. That got it going, but it almost did not make it.

After killing the batteries a couple times in as many days, I went out and replaced them with Yellow Tops, so I hope to not have this problem again.

 

No sir......you don't have two batteries just in case one dies...

This is a diesel engine you're talking about, something so heavy and powerful it needs two batteries, not one, just to start. If you only had one good battery, it would drain the other all in the name of trying to start. If you had the V10 or the 5.4, you probably could jump off the other one without a problem.

 

Exactly, when jump starting, you have to leave the key in the off position, then once you're ready, you just start it. If you wait for the glow plugs you'll be back to square one with two dead batteries. I learned that one the hard way....I got the X to start, but it took an hour and a half and my buddy that jump started me had to get some new batteries for his Cummins. Lesson learned.

 

I understand the requirements for two batteries is Deisel Engines have a higher compression ratio than a gasoline engine. The output from the batteries are in series, it's 12vdc and 1000+ amps to provide torque to the starter motor. This 1000+ amps is what limits the normal booster pacs from working on Deisels. I am thinking these heavier duty booster pacs at 2000 to 3000 amps packs can do the job.

 

So is there a way to tell when you need new batteries before you are stranded? I added an aftermarket volt gauge that regularly reads 14.1-14.2

I suppose if I see a downward trend it may be a clue, but the way things go in AZ is one day it works, the next it is dead. No warning whatsoever.

 

Hmmm,
This thread couldn't have come at a better time! I'm preparing to add a Dual (well quad actually) battery system in my EX. I am putting two golfcart/electric boat batteries together to power my inverter while camping in the boonies. This way I can charge my cameras, run my computer etc and not touch the starting batteries. This way I can power the inverter and not touch my starting batteries as I will be the only diesel for miles on my trip.

 

It's worth saying a few things about batteries ... as someone who's done some battery research.

First of all, it's not the compression, it's the glow plugs. While the diesel likely has (and i haven't checked) a 150 to 200 amp starter motor, I seem to recall the glow plugs weigh in at 120 amps each. (times 8 is 960 amps... and that goes one _while_ the starter is running --- so the 1000 amp estimate is very real).

Second, if you somehow manage to flatten these batteries you have, consder (again, last I checked) that you have two 78 amp-hour batteries in there and (last I checked) a 170 amp alternator. That means a full charge is likely two hours of highway running.

Lastly, battery life is reasonably predictable. If you drain them completely, you're on borrowed time. The length of time the spend dead is a factor in how damaged they become. "Calcification" is the enemy of lead-acid variants. But well treated batteries have a 3 to 5 year life span depending on the quality.

 

zbebble,

For several reasons, I disagree the glow plugs draw 960amps, thus the need for dual batteries. First, 120 amps per glow plug would require wire size of 0000 per plug.

Second, the whole glow plug circuit is protected by a only 30 amp fuse, and while we all wait for the glow plug to come up to temperture, this would mean the cirucit is drawing almost 1000 amps for more than 1 minute, it would fry and burn.

Third, the proof that compression is the reason for the dual batteries, if you've been in the situation where your battery is dead, and try to jump start with just one battery. The Starter will most likely just click, as the soleonoid engages but the flywheel isn't spinning or possibly it will turn but moan badly. Or if you're battery as some amperage left, it will turn over but never get to up to speed to start the ignition cycle, it's turning too slowly, because lack of toruqe (amps)

Lastly, when in the sitaution of a dead battery and hook up single battery. The glow plug indicator will go off as the plugs arrive at temperture, but the battery still lacks the power to crank the motor over. Using your logic, the glow plug will never get to temperture as the battery doesn't have the amperage to deliver 960amps.

I think your number of 120amp per plug is wrong, it's more like 8-10 amps.

J.

 

I believe the 30 amp fusing is for the GPR. (glow plug relay)

Nomatter what the reason you've got to have 2 good batteries. When mine died everything seemed fine, but the engine would not turn quite fast enough the get the oil to open the injectors.

 

Urm. Heh. Good argument, but our glow plugs don't take minutes (talking 6.0L here, I suppose). As I recall the spec on the 6.0L glo plugs, they're supposed to arrive at temperature (2000 degrees or somesuch) in a few seconds. The glow plug light is simply a pacifier on a timer based on external temperature and has nothing to do with the state of the glo plugs. In fact, the repair manual for the glow plugs states that the glow plugs remain on for 2 minutes after starting in cold weather.

At draw of 8 to 10 amps, you couldn't heat the water in my kettle. It draws 20 amps and heats 2 litres of water in about 25 minutes.

drawing 120 amps doesn't requre 4 ought wire. It just means that the wire will get warm, have a duty cycle and the votage will drop _severely_ ... all of which the glow plugs tolerate. Some EE type here could calculate the overall resistance of the circuit to deliver 120 amps at 12V. Maybe it's only 80. It's still a huge draw.

Anyways... your second example of the motor not turning over is moot since (read above) the glow plugs are still on. I'm reasonably sure that even the 7.3's (where the glow plugs are slower and draw less current) leave the glow plug circuit on after starting.