Smoke on Start up
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 98
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From: Yukon, Oklahoma
Smoke on Start up
okay, first off i know this is a really dumb question
i have a 77 F-150 with a 351, 143k miles
now when i start it up it smokes a blue/white color, now i know this is because of oil consumption, and we're not talking a small cloud its ALOT of smoke, but i wanna know how i can solve this problem i thought maybe a heavier oil and i've seen some products at O'reilly's that say if you mix it in as 1/5 in with an oil change it will solve that problem...has anyone ever tried that stuff? does it work? or is there another way of quick fixing it?
again, i know its stupid, but im 17 gimme a break
i have a 77 F-150 with a 351, 143k miles
now when i start it up it smokes a blue/white color, now i know this is because of oil consumption, and we're not talking a small cloud its ALOT of smoke, but i wanna know how i can solve this problem i thought maybe a heavier oil and i've seen some products at O'reilly's that say if you mix it in as 1/5 in with an oil change it will solve that problem...has anyone ever tried that stuff? does it work? or is there another way of quick fixing it?
again, i know its stupid, but im 17 gimme a break
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,222
Likes: 1
From: East Central Florida
Stop Smoking
Beast,
This common problem occurs when oil leaks down valve stems past valve guides in the cylinder heads. It can be caused by 1 or more of 3 things. Bad Valve seals, blocked return holes in the heads, or worn out valve guides in the cylinder heads. 143K+ miles would lead me to say valve seals are most likely the cause of your problem.
Try Replacing your Valve stem seals & cleaning out the return holes in the Cyl heads
But more importantly, your question is not stupid, but not asking it would have been.
You see, the only really stupid questions are always those people don't ask because then they may never find out the answers they need to have. . . . Nobody has ever been born knowing everything. AND. . . .I'm only 19 myself, but I have been 19 for the last 46 years. . . . So I'm really "Great at being 19. . . ."
FBp
This common problem occurs when oil leaks down valve stems past valve guides in the cylinder heads. It can be caused by 1 or more of 3 things. Bad Valve seals, blocked return holes in the heads, or worn out valve guides in the cylinder heads. 143K+ miles would lead me to say valve seals are most likely the cause of your problem.
Try Replacing your Valve stem seals & cleaning out the return holes in the Cyl heads
But more importantly, your question is not stupid, but not asking it would have been.
You see, the only really stupid questions are always those people don't ask because then they may never find out the answers they need to have. . . . Nobody has ever been born knowing everything. AND. . . .I'm only 19 myself, but I have been 19 for the last 46 years. . . . So I'm really "Great at being 19. . . ."
FBp
Last edited by FordBoypete; Jun 23, 2006 at 07:44 AM.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164
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From: Tri-Cities, TN
Ford Boypete is probably correct. Valve seal issues with 351M/400 are common. You can replace the seals without removing the heads. It usually requires using compressed air to keep the valves from dropping into the cylinder when replacing the seals. Chiltons and Haynes manuals describe the proceedure in detail. By the way, heavier oil and additives won't fix the issue for long, if at all. Good Luck!
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2005
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Like to add, when you pop off the valve cover, the valve seals will be visible thru the valve springs. Inspect the valve seals at this time.
If you used the compressed air thru the spark plug holes for the valve seal replacement, you can give the engine a compression test at this time. jot down this information by cylinder number.
If you used the compressed air thru the spark plug holes for the valve seal replacement, you can give the engine a compression test at this time. jot down this information by cylinder number.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 17
From: Hesperia, CA
My 460 eats valve seals, so I replace them every couple of years. It is a relative simple procedure once you have done it. You can get a simple valve spring compressor tool at any Kragen or Autozone and a compression tester kit. Use the hose out of the compression test kit, but remember to take the schroder valve out of the hose first, and use it to inject compressed air into the cylinder you are removing the springs from. Just do one valve at a time. I try to put the piston at the top of the cylinder so if you do lose air the valve wont fall into the cylinder. Don't run the compressed air at to high of a pressure or it will push the piston down into the cylinder. As Snowdog says the Chilton or Haynes manuals describe the procedure in detail. If in doubt find or make a friend that has done it before to help you. Good luck, Gary
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,544
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From: okc
when i tore down my 460, i thought the valve seals where gone because it would smoke on startup....when i got it apart i looked in the valve chamber and the was oil in it, but it wasnt coming down the valve stem...turns out it was being sucked in through bad intake manifold gaskets...im not saying it couldnt be the valves on your truck, but a set of intake gaskets is easier than doing some valve seals...i would say replace the intake gaskets, when you put the valve cover back on dont RTV the new valvecover gasket yet, that way you can reuse that gasket if you still have to change valve seals after you test it out....also remember, if its been smoking alot there is alot of oil in the exhaust pipes/manifolds, so when you do fix the problem the smoke might still be there when the pipes get hot until all the oil burns out of it.....
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Junior User
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Yukon, Oklahoma
well now its smoking when you drive down the street, so i guess im just gona do a complete rebuild of the engine and the tranny just so i wont have to do it later
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New User
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another method of changing valve seals without compressed air (which btw can shoot the piston down to the bottom of the stroke) is the use of rope which is fed into the the sparkplug hole and the crank turned to push the piston against it.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Hesperia, CA
Originally Posted by Mil1ion
another method of changing valve seals without compressed air (which btw can shoot the piston down to the bottom of the stroke) is the use of rope which is fed into the the sparkplug hole and the crank turned to push the piston against it.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 445
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Yes, the rope trick works really well because you have as much time as you want to replace the guide seals. With compressed air, if the valves don't seal super well, you lose air pressure quickly and you have to repressurize several times.
With rope holding the valves closed, there is no way they can accidently drop into the bores.......
Also, use a braided 1/4 inch nylon rope rather than a regular (yellow) polypropylene rope because it coils up better inside the cylinder and holds valves shut very well.
With the rope in place, don't even think of turning the engine with the starter!
I'm just about to use the rope trick on a 65 ****** six.
With rope holding the valves closed, there is no way they can accidently drop into the bores.......
Also, use a braided 1/4 inch nylon rope rather than a regular (yellow) polypropylene rope because it coils up better inside the cylinder and holds valves shut very well.
With the rope in place, don't even think of turning the engine with the starter!
I'm just about to use the rope trick on a 65 ****** six.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,133
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From: Dracut, Massachusetts
my truck was burning small amounts of oil on startup. i used this blue stuff that cames in a silver can, they make it for 4 6 and 8 cyl, applications, it completely solved my problem, that was almost 2 years ago! but i was only burning a very small amount.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 101
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From: S.E. Michigan
Blue/white smoke
I had the same problem with my 351/400.
However, I had had the engine rebuilt a few thousand miles earlier and had my reservations about the engine.
As it turned out, it was the vacuum booster for the brakes. I don't remember the details that led me to it, but it cured the problem and I had better braking too. Just some food for thought.
HoBo
P.S.
Good tip with the rope. Thanks
However, I had had the engine rebuilt a few thousand miles earlier and had my reservations about the engine.
As it turned out, it was the vacuum booster for the brakes. I don't remember the details that led me to it, but it cured the problem and I had better braking too. Just some food for thought.
HoBo
P.S.
Good tip with the rope. Thanks
Last edited by hobo.labo; Jun 25, 2006 at 10:44 AM.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: S.E. Michigan
In my case it was the vacuum booster for the power brakes. I'm guessing a diaphram was cracked inside the booster and sucking oil and whatever (?) into it when the engine was off. It smoked upon start-up and for a short time afterwords when I would rev the engine, then deminish.
When I changed the booster (attached to the master cylinder) as well as the master cylinder, the problem disappeared.
That was about 8 yrs. ago, yes I'm still driving it, and no smoke!
Good Luck, HoBo
When I changed the booster (attached to the master cylinder) as well as the master cylinder, the problem disappeared.
That was about 8 yrs. ago, yes I'm still driving it, and no smoke!
Good Luck, HoBo
New User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17
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From: Houston
Thanks for all this timely info
All:
I normally come here for my 89 Bronco, but as of today, I own a '73 F100 Ranger - just brought it home. And, it smokes on start-up and beyond. Friend who sold it to me suggested it likely is the oil seals, but the brakes seem to need some work too as I get used to them- I feel it ain't gonna stop!
So, I too may have a vacuum problem - master cylinder - and seal issue. I will address them all and take this chat string to my mechanic and I am sure he will change them all - but that couldn't hurt.
Will let you know which is the fix --- if I can tell.
Looking forward to cruising down the highway in the old Ranger! Sweet!
Sadie10023
I normally come here for my 89 Bronco, but as of today, I own a '73 F100 Ranger - just brought it home. And, it smokes on start-up and beyond. Friend who sold it to me suggested it likely is the oil seals, but the brakes seem to need some work too as I get used to them- I feel it ain't gonna stop!
So, I too may have a vacuum problem - master cylinder - and seal issue. I will address them all and take this chat string to my mechanic and I am sure he will change them all - but that couldn't hurt.
Will let you know which is the fix --- if I can tell.
Looking forward to cruising down the highway in the old Ranger! Sweet!
Sadie10023
Last edited by sadie10023; Jun 25, 2006 at 09:41 PM.