70 Torino 302ci in 65 F100. Rebuilt 12,000 mi's ago when #1 cylinder wall cracked. Ordered rebuilt 302 but believe it will be out of a 74 Torino. I understand there was a considerable drop in hp after 1972 because of modifications to the engine for smogging. Not that knowledgeable, but concerned about the drop in hp and was wondering if I can use the heads off of the 70 engine and install on the 74 to make up the drop in hp?

dave

 

Depends what caused the drop in hp...you'll be probably looking at a compression change.

Sometimes they drop the compression as part of the emissions stuff - which drops power - so they might have more of a dish in the pistons or a larger chamber in the heads.

Did you buy a shortblock or long block? (short - block/rotating assembly...long - assembled with heads)

The specified "rebuilt out of a torino" sounds ambiguous to me...

It's one thing to have a 302 taken out of a torino and rebuilt...it's another to have it rebuilt back to torino specs like it was originally...

A 302 is a 302 no matter what vehicle it came out of - it's the suble differences in parts (like the piston dish, cam, etc) that make the difference.

 

Purchased a long block. Advertised as a 74 engine but when it comes down to it, not sure if shop knows origin, or year of engine. My understanding, is shop is rebuilding to manufacturers spec's for 302ci. In reviewing engine manual, noticed bore and strock are same thru out but compression ration and hp is greater pre 1972. Looks like hp drop from 205 to 154 hp after 1972, as well as torque ft. #. Thought for smogging purposes, if heads were ported differently possibly using early model heads on later model engine would make up difference in hp. As noted earlier, not knowledgeable when it comes to inner workings of the engine.

dave

 

The bore and stroke wouldn't change - 302ci = 3" stroke and 4" bore.

After 72' is when everything took a dive so that makes sense.

You can check the block ID number (passanger side of engine block towards the back) and the head ID number (cast into it somewhere, usually in the rocker area) to identify what parts you have.

You could have any 302 stuff at this point we don't have enough info to tell. I'd talk to the supplier for more specifics...you should have all kinds of details before purchasing so you know what you're getting and can tell whether or not what you'd get is what you'd want for the application. A 302 engine varies depending on it's application, marine, truck, car, old/new, etc...even though it's a 302 block and every 302 block is virtually the same.

 

Called and advised the engine is in the mail. Sales person could not provide the block casting # but did say engine has 69 heads. Will check casting #'s once engine arrives. Puchased thru discount engine machine shop, kinda anxious to see how engine performs. The replacement engine cost around 1/2 as much as it cost to rebuild the 70 Torino engine 12,000 mi's ago. Intend to keep as backup after sleeving the 1 cylinder and reassembling. Thank you for the input and suggestions.

dave

 

If the block has a casting number that starts with a D3-D6 you have a 73 through a 76 block and it has a slightly higher deck height (its like .030 or something, ive forgot the actual number). If you use this block you will have a little bit lower compression ratio than a pre-73/post-76 block. <br><br>The reason you see a huge difference in the HP/TQ numbers isnt because of the smog equipment they were putting on cars, it was because auto makers went to measuring power in SAE NET rating instead of SAE gross ratings. This made the power numbers seem lower than they were because all of the accessories and exhaust were on the engine when tested, Gross numbers were not tested that way, The smog stuff really didnt take away much. There is NO difference between any of the 302 heads from 69-76, they were all the same at 58cc's, 68' Non-HO heads actually had larger 63cc chambers and 68' 4V-HO heads had 53cc's. 1977 heads to 1985 heads were all 69cc's (except for mustang HO motors, they varied alot on chamber sizes) E7TE heads had 60cc chambers and were used from 86 (in trucks) and 87 (in cars) til the 302 was stopped being used (except for explorers which had the gt40p heads).<br><br> Anyway the only difference between your 70' 302 and your (possibly) 74' 302 is going to be the Compression ratio, which was probably 1.5 points lower than your 70'. The only way you can gain that back is with new pistons.

 

I can see said the blind man. Always been under the impression the reduction in spec's pre/post 1972 was due to modification of the engine for smogging. Browsing motor manuals over the years, could not understand how spec's from a pre 72 302 could be greater than say the spec's for a 390 built after 72. Really appreciated everyone's input, bookmarked these threads for future references. Thanx

dave

 

There IS a difference in the heads from 69-76. While they all used the same valve sizes (1.78/1.45), they had either 53.5, 63, or 58.2 cc combustion chamber volumes, depending on year and application. Not sure about all of them, but the casting numbers on my C9TE-C's (58.2cc) are on the bottom of the head, between the exhaust port openings, making them all but impossible to see on a dirty motor with the manifolds on. On edit: Go to the "Read First" thread at the top of the page for casting numbers and specs. -Pete

 

Your thinking of the specs from <b> 68-76</b> not 69-76. Like I said the heads with 63cc's (2v) and 53cc's (4v) were 1967/1968 castings and from 69 on they were 58cc's. Heads could vary a couple of cc's in the chambers between different heads, but they were all rated at 58cc after 1969.

 

In 1972 Ford put Grand Canyon sized dishes in the 302's pistons. That accounted for the drop in compression. In 78, they went back to a flat topped piston, and put in Grand Canyon sized chambers in the D8AE heads. In 87, They came out with the E7TE head for Mustangs, Lincoln Mark VII's, Pickups, vans and Capri's. All the rest of the cars got E6SE heads. Now, all that said, there's no telling WHAT pistons that reman engine will have. And if it does happen to come with flat tops, that's also no gaurantee that it'll still come up with a respectable 9+ to 1 comp ratio. 302 flat tops vary in pin height, from 1.585 to 1.610. That .025" difference makes a half point difference in the final ratio.

 

Any other info on the deck heights????

I know that to be true on '69 351's (shorter deck) have never heard or read that about 302's untill now.

 

The deck change jives with the piston pin height variation. 1.585 pistons will be .030 down the bore in a late model roller block. 1.610's will come right up to the top of the deck. In anycase the difference is nothing that a milling of the decks won't eliminate. When I add up the dimensions of the components of my 331, it comes to a total of 8.20" 1.625+1.175+5.4= 8.20. The pistons are .003" down the hole at TDC and I milled the block .010. That made the block have an 8.213 deck from the factory.

 

Really do not have a clue year engine block or heads. Checked all #'s on both before painting block could not find any #'s resembling casting numbers. Checked with sales person who indicated heads were C9 so suspect they are 69 heads. As far as block is concerned, could only find 1 number of 4J4A. Recently found I could have gone to later model engine and it would have matched up with existing bellhousing,flywheel, and tranny. O'well, live and learn.

Finally installed engine, torqued damper to 80 ft. lb's, could be wrong, just does not appear damper is fully seated. Would make task easier if able to use air impact gun, but since no way of determining torque value, do not want to cause any damage. Intend to recheck again in a.m. using torque wrench after hook everything up and able to apply torque w/out engine turning.

Appreciate the information, intend to bookmark this post for future references.

dave

 

The casting number and date code is down in the corner where the starter sits. The head numbers are under the intake runners, you have to remove the heads to see them. Or use a mirror to read em. The head date code is inside the rocker valley, next to the valve cover rail, usually in the middle. The code you posted looks like a date code except for the "A" 4J04 would be 4th sept 1974 if it's a 70's block.1st number is the year of the decade it was made, the letter is the month code (starting alphabetically with "A" for January, they only skipped the letter "I")the last number or numbers is the day of the month. The casting number will determine the decade it was made.

 

69 heads, and 70 block. Casting numbers located where stated. Thanks again.

dave