Shop or not
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,305
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From: Boulder Creek, Ca
Shop or not
Had to tow truck home last week. Engine came to stop, not sure of cause. Sounded if timing chain, cam gear, or simular were binding. Removed engine and tore down. Engine did not seize, no metal in pan, but full of antifreeze. Now that engine is apart, all moving parts seem to be working. Starting to think interms of possible blown head gasket, but not sure of symptoms. Now that engine is removed and disassembled considering taking to shop to check out at considerable expense, or reassembly myself for cost of gasket set. Engine was rebuilt, not too long ago. Any suggestions appreciated.
dave
dave
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,423
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From: Clarksville,Tn
Dave; Not knowing if you stated you examined the head gasket to see if that was where the leak of anitfreeze came from is the problem; If not; I would get the head or heads (don't know your engine size) magnaflux to determine if damage beyond repair; the worst cause scenario you problem either got a crack head or block. Machine shop will easily determine this. It seems shade tree mechanic's like me can only quess?
Mitch
Mitch
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Boulder Creek, Ca
Cleaned heads and block and could not detect any cracks but magna flux is probably only way to really determine. Not sure what to look for in the head gasket, did not see any serious indicaters, appears may have leaked into #1 cylinder but hard for me to determine. Quite the dilemma, shop or not shop, but guess it best to put the money up front than risk installing and finding still have a problem. Having it rebuilt not too long ago,at quite an expense, makes it little bit harder. Probably have shop take a look and reassemble, better safe than sorry. Thanks Mitch.
dave
dave
Last edited by daveengelson; May 28, 2006 at 06:33 PM.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 28,609
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From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
What engine do you have?
Can you post some pics of the head gaskets?
Are any of the piston tops unusually clean? That is an indication of coolant leaking into the cylinder.
If you had a cylinder full of coolant it may have been a hydraulic lock. In this case it is possible to have damaged a piston/rod/ bearing. If you have identified number one as the problem cylinder, take the piston/rod assembly to a machinist and have them check it, explaining the situation so he knows what he's looking for. Sometimes the piston cracks, sometimes the rod bearing is compressed and sometimes the rod is bent.
Can you post some pics of the head gaskets?
Are any of the piston tops unusually clean? That is an indication of coolant leaking into the cylinder.
If you had a cylinder full of coolant it may have been a hydraulic lock. In this case it is possible to have damaged a piston/rod/ bearing. If you have identified number one as the problem cylinder, take the piston/rod assembly to a machinist and have them check it, explaining the situation so he knows what he's looking for. Sometimes the piston cracks, sometimes the rod bearing is compressed and sometimes the rod is bent.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,305
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From: Boulder Creek, Ca
Have a 302 with slightly beefed up cam to accomodate my 4bl carb., and upgraded to Dura spark ignition. The truck has been running like a dream for the past 12-15000 mi. Never had an over heating problem; at times, wished it would run little hotter, and oil pressure is good. Unfortuneately, do not have my camera with me. Be that as it may, the possibility of hydraulic lock concerns me. Did have to chug along couple hundred feet to get to a turn out. Engine never siezed but #1 piston did appear unsually clean, but also slightly scared. I have not removed the pistons or rods, as yet. Seems it would be best to take engine, as is, and have shop go thru it and make determination, then reassemble. It is going to hirt the pocket book, but have had the truck for more than 35 years, pulled the engine more than once, and getting too old to be pulling again. Appreciate the information, helpful in making decision. Darn, spent the day cleaning all the parts for reassemble. O well.
dave
dave
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,565
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From: Sun River St. George
Gasket set and reassemble! If the engine was turning over it was not hydrostatically locked and additional damage is highly unlikley. Clean it up and reassemble. IMHO! Sometimes we stress over stuff that just should not be stressed over.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Boulder Creek, Ca
Once I got into it, not only was #1 piston head scored, but also the piston wall. Took to shop to have it looked at. Once that issue is cleaned up, intend to bring home and reassemble.
dave
dave
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Fleet Mechanic
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From: Southern Alberta
I had very similar symptoms recently on a 351w which had blown a head gasket, but it might not be a bad idea to have your heads magnafluxed.
Cheap way would be to replace the head gasket, put it all back together and see if it runs. Better way would be to have the head magnafluxed so if they're cracked, your are not reinstalling junk, IMO
RF
Cheap way would be to replace the head gasket, put it all back together and see if it runs. Better way would be to have the head magnafluxed so if they're cracked, your are not reinstalling junk, IMO
RF
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Boulder Creek, Ca
Since deciding to take engine to shop, felt best to have heads checked at same time. Shop has had engine long enough to have made a determination. Leaving thia a.m. to take a look. Really appreciate everyone's input.
dave
dave
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Boulder Creek, Ca
Rich, yes I did take it back to same shop. Had done little research before hand and found shop had/has very good reputation. Usually very busy and lot of high performance stuff. Had them rebuild another engine for me some 35 plus years ago, so they have been around awhile. However, went to check on engine this a.m. and found it has not been moved since it was dropped off. Of course, owner very apologetic but let him know did not set well with me. Anyhow, gave me the incentive to go salvage shopping and found another 302 in a 70 Ford 150. Came oh so close to pulling head and giving it the once over. Hope owner considers break, going to cost if have them reassemble.
dave
dave
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Boulder Creek, Ca
Got the bad news, cracked #1 cylinder wall. #1 and #7 piston rings seized on piston. Appeared nut or washer had gotten into cylinder and caused the problem. Top of piston did look scared, can't believe would do something as that stupid, but suppose it's possible. Mechanic did not feel news all that bad, mentioned sleeving #1, boring all cylinders to .040 and installing new piston and rings. Apparently, crank, cam, and barrings were okay. Not familiar with engine rebuild but seem to recall it being mentioned, avoid sleeving cylinder at all cost. Have to travel across state in next day or so and thought I would try and make a series of salvage shopping stops along the way. Do have a 351w at destination but would require rebuild, and rather stay with 302 because of cost involve in replaceing items not interchangeable. Any input or suggestions regarding whether to sleeve or look for substitute block.
dave
dave
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Parkville, MO (KC)
You have had it for 35 years. That means (I presume) that you intend to keep the truck indefinitely. In five years, you will forget the money you spend to do this right.
If you take the cheap approach, you'll remember it again and again and again.
IMHO, the 302 is no truck engine, at least not in my truck. Consider building the 351, perhaps swapping back to the 300 (yes, the bell will work) or if you like lots of HP, what a better time then to explore a 390 or 460?
If you want fuel economy, then it might be time to go looking for a FI engine to drop in.
Just my thoughts.
If you take the cheap approach, you'll remember it again and again and again.
IMHO, the 302 is no truck engine, at least not in my truck. Consider building the 351, perhaps swapping back to the 300 (yes, the bell will work) or if you like lots of HP, what a better time then to explore a 390 or 460?
If you want fuel economy, then it might be time to go looking for a FI engine to drop in.
Just my thoughts.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Boulder Creek, Ca
Have another 65 F100 with recent rebuilt 390ci, and no comparison with HP. Another advantage to the 390, for this old timer, don't have to worry about bladder control, I can hold between fill ups. Really have no complaints with the 302, it has been my primary work horse. Compiled list for salvage shopping and amazed at the number of passenger cars, vans, and trucks, 68 thru 74, that came with the 302. Options come down to sleeve cylinder, install new piston and rings and reassemble 302, or rebuild 351w which est. will cost about same. Not that familiar with the 351 but understand gas milage about same as the 390. Would also have few dress up accessories left from the 302 that may not interchange with the 351. Another option, found engine rebuilder thru ebay, who I spoke with, and they can provide a long block to door for about same cost as the other 2 options. 7 year warranty, of course pro-rated, suspect diminishes substancially after the first 90 days. Appreciate the input. Decisions-Decisions.
dave
dave
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Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Colville, Washington
As long as the cylinder is sleeved properly there are no issues with that procedure. It is common on rare blocks in order to save the block. About the only things that will not interchange from the 302 to the 351W are the intake manifold, the distributor and the oil pan. The front accessories will fit also, there is a small bracket that bolts to head so the 302 alt bracket will fit. I am not sure if PS pump also has that, but the bracket should be easy to find.