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No spark when engine is warm.

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Old Jun 14, 2006 | 08:03 AM
  #46  
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From: Easton,Ks
You might also check the ground at the Distributor, this is the only ground fro the module.
Here is another Diagram

 
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Old Jun 14, 2006 | 09:57 AM
  #47  
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Sailfish,

I'm more concerned about your recently replaced magnetic pickup, coil, and ignition module. Just because they are new doesn't mean they are good. You also implied that it was "put in," so you should doublecheck the work. Don't be too quick to trust someone else's work. And in all honesty, the tests at Autozone aren't always accurate. Of course your module will test good, because you bring it in cold. You know the truck runs when your module is cold. It's not like you can pull the module and have it tested when it's extremely hot, which is when the problem occurs. Those things contain electronics that are very sensitive to temperature.

You need to get your ohmmeter and test the magnetic pickup assembly and the coil (primary and secondary windings). I don't have the numbers off hand, but Autozone's website has a very detailed Duraspark troubleshooting guide that will tell you the range you're looking for. Don't trust Haynes\Chilton books for this...they are often wrong. I was in this same situation last winter with an LTD and threw away a good coil because my numbers were wrong.

I really think one or more of those three items is where your problem lies. I think you're on a wild goose chase going through all this wiring. It's not as common that a truck would cut out because of a wiring fault...it's usually the things the wires go to. If I'm wrong and have steered you in the wrong direction, I apologize, but if it were my rig, the "new" ignition module, magnetic pickup, and coil would be my first targets.
 
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Old Jun 15, 2006 | 08:39 AM
  #48  
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Thanks for your reply fmc400.
The pickup coil was installed by my step father who is a retired 30+ year mechanic/owner of a auto service shop. I guess that I trust that he put it in correctly.
I will check out the Autozone web site for those numbers for the resistance checks. We have some time planned for tonight to do some more testing. I understand that those components could be the problem but I guess I want to be sure what the problem is before I start replacing more components. It's getting expensive. When the truck is "hot" the module is not even warm to the touch. As for the pickup coil I am not sure how that works. Does it work differently in RUN and START or does it work consistently the same? Is it before, after or the same with the coil current? What I mean is does the coil provide the current to the pickup or the does the pickup provide current for the coil or none of the above? I have not had time to ask my step father this yet, that is why I am asking all of you.
When the truck is "hot", I am not getting current/voltage to the TACH side of the coil. That is the difference between "cold" and "hot" on the START side!
 
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Old Jun 15, 2006 | 10:49 AM
  #49  
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From: Easton,Ks
If I had this much trouble with a truck I think I would install a hot start push button. The switch would have one wire going to the Pos (+) side of the battery with a fuse in it and two wires on the other side of the switch going to the White wire and Pos (+) side of the coil.

If it does not start when warm push and hold while cranking then release when it starts.

Or you can use this as a test tool and if will not start with it you have a short in a wire or bad component (Pick-Up coil, Module or Coil).

It also sounds to me like there is something wired in that is not stock that may be turned on when warm like an Electric Fan or Radio maybe.
 
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Old Jun 15, 2006 | 11:14 AM
  #50  
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From: Easton,Ks
Originally Posted by Sailfish83
As for the pickup coil I am not sure how that works. (1)Does it work differently in RUN and START or does it work consistently the same? (2)Is it before, after or the same with the coil current? (3)What I mean is does the coil provide the current to the pickup or the does the pickup provide current for the coil or none of the above?
(1) The same
(2) ???
(3)
The current is generated by the Pick-Up coil and is sent to the Module.
The PICKUP has a magnet in it and when the tooth of the armature disturbs the magnetic field it collapses and cuts through the windings generating the current.

How it works is when the engine is cranking or running:
The magnetic pickup in the Distributor sends pulses to the Ignition Module as each tooth of the rotor passes the pickup.

The Ignition Module switches current on and off to the primary (TACH TEST) of the Ignition Coil according to the Distributor pulses:

Each interruption of primary current makes the Ignition Coil secondary produce a high-voltage pulse of up to 40,000 volts:

High voltage pulses are transmitted to the Distributor, which sends them to fire the spark Plugs.

 
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Old Jun 15, 2006 | 11:48 AM
  #51  
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If that is true then it sounds like my problem IS the pickup coil.
 
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Old Jun 15, 2006 | 11:58 AM
  #52  
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From: Easton,Ks
Originally Posted by Sailfish83
If that is true then it sounds like my problem IS the pickup coil.
The previous post information has nothing to do with no power on the white wire while cranking.
 
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Old Jun 16, 2006 | 06:56 AM
  #53  
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Well, the problem revealed itself to us last night! I believe we have finally fixed this old truck. I printed off that Duraspark troubleshooting guide off the Autozone web site. The coil test showed us that the Green wire at the coil was not getting 12v, it was something like 1.35v. We undid the pigtail connector with the 4 wires from the module. Retested the Green wire at the module and it had 12v. Connected the pigtail back up and 1.35v. Something was shorting it out. We felt that the module was working fine because everything had the correct voltage when the connector was undone. So we replaced the pickup/stator. We then let it warmup till the thermostat kicked in, let it sit for about 10-15 min. and she fired right up. Voltage checked out good at the module with everything connected.
The pickup must have been shorting out when the temperature got somewhere above normal operating temperature. I wonder if something else caused the pickup to short. I guess if the problem reappears then we will know. It probably was just a bad pickup.
I would like to thank all of you for all the help you have given me in troubleshooting this problem. Special thanks to Franklin2 and subford for answering all my "electrical for dummies" questions. I have learned alot about my truck. I also appreciate your patience as this problem probably should have been detected sooner than this. I also hope that these threads help someone else out who may be have a similar problem with their Ford.

Thanks again, you guys are great!
Eric
 
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Old Jun 16, 2006 | 08:02 AM
  #54  
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From: Easton,Ks
Originally Posted by Sailfish83
The coil test showed us that the Green wire at the coil was not getting 12v, it was something like 1.35v. We undid the pigtail connector with the 4 wires from the module. Retested the Green wire at the module and it had 12v. Connected the pigtail back up and 1.35v. Something was shorting it out.
This all normal, you will not get 12V at Tach with the Module hooked up, you get 12V with it unhooked because there is no current going through the Ign. Coil and you have 12V on the Pos. Term.

If Autozone says you are supposed to have 12V here at the Tach with the four-wire plug hook up it is wrong. I can not find where they say this on their site.

I hope it is fixed but some how I have my doubts.
 

Last edited by subford; Jun 16, 2006 at 08:26 AM.
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Old Jun 16, 2006 | 09:05 AM
  #55  
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Installing a new part that is bad, can really throw the logical troubleshooting routine off. Since this is what happened, it was probably pretty normal to have taken this long to find the problem.
 
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