Consumer Reports bias?
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Post Fiend
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From: Damascus-Boring, Ore
Consumer Reports bias?
Nifty article about the new Toyota Avalon, which Consumer Reports predicted would have better than average reliability, but in fact is turning into quite a problem child.
Linky
Every production line produces its share of lemons. But Toyota already has issued a string of technical service bulletins to dealers to fix Avalons on the road. Changes are being made on the assembly line. Toyota representatives acknowledge there are some teething problems, but decline to call the Avalon a problem car.
The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.
While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.
Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.
"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.
Hmmm. the transmission and throttle lag problem have been around for a couple of years now on this car. Notable TSB's on the car include:
>> Bad U-joint welds
>> Faulty catalytic converters
>> Leak in oil-supply line for variable valve timing
>> Vehicle drifting
Bottom line- the car's a piece of crap. But it's also a Toyota, which means it earned Consumer Reports blessings as top of class, based on it's predicted reliability. But of course, we know they aren't biased.
Linky
Every production line produces its share of lemons. But Toyota already has issued a string of technical service bulletins to dealers to fix Avalons on the road. Changes are being made on the assembly line. Toyota representatives acknowledge there are some teething problems, but decline to call the Avalon a problem car.
The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.
While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.
Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.
"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.
Hmmm. the transmission and throttle lag problem have been around for a couple of years now on this car. Notable TSB's on the car include:
>> Bad U-joint welds
>> Faulty catalytic converters
>> Leak in oil-supply line for variable valve timing
>> Vehicle drifting
Bottom line- the car's a piece of crap. But it's also a Toyota, which means it earned Consumer Reports blessings as top of class, based on it's predicted reliability. But of course, we know they aren't biased.
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From: Maine
I'm curious about something- I think it would be safe assumption to say that people can make a better decision about car buying when they've done some research about the models they're considering, but only if the information they find in their research is accurate.
Consumer Reports is a very popular choice with people who only pay attention to new cars every few years when they want to buy one, but it isn't exactly the most objective rating system.
Are there any good sources for truly unbiased information that the average, non-car-enthusiast can get fairly clear and consise data on new cars? Something, say my mother could go and get useful information comparing a Subaru Forester to a Toyota RAV4 and a Ford Escape, without an anti-American bias, and without being overly technical?
EDIT: Red Star, a LOT of people take Consumer Reports seriously. I know poeple who chose vehicles within a class (i.e. - midsize sedan) solely on Comsumer Reports. CR says the Camry and Accord are the best midsize sedans, they go find the best price they can on one of those in a color they like.
Consumer Reports is a very popular choice with people who only pay attention to new cars every few years when they want to buy one, but it isn't exactly the most objective rating system.
Are there any good sources for truly unbiased information that the average, non-car-enthusiast can get fairly clear and consise data on new cars? Something, say my mother could go and get useful information comparing a Subaru Forester to a Toyota RAV4 and a Ford Escape, without an anti-American bias, and without being overly technical?
EDIT: Red Star, a LOT of people take Consumer Reports seriously. I know poeple who chose vehicles within a class (i.e. - midsize sedan) solely on Comsumer Reports. CR says the Camry and Accord are the best midsize sedans, they go find the best price they can on one of those in a color they like.
Last edited by john112deere; May 4, 2006 at 10:35 AM.
Logistics Pro
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From: Mansfield, TX USA
Originally Posted by polarbear
Bottom line- the car's a piece of crap. But it's also a Toyota, which means it earned Consumer Reports blessings as top of class, based on it's predicted reliability. But of course, we know they aren't biased.
Any specific statistical analysis can be picked to death. And not all samples follow trends. Remember the bell-shaped curve, some samples fall within the 80%, some fall below it, some above.
Logistics Pro
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From: Mansfield, TX USA
Originally Posted by john112deere
Are there any good sources for truly unbiased information that the average, non-car-enthusiast can get fairly clear and consise data on new cars?
CU hated my '97 Catera, but I loved it. So much so, I bought a 2004 GTO, the Aussie version of the Catera (CU also hates the GTO, BTW). If I had only listened to CU, I would never have discovered these cars.
PS - CU also dislikes the New Beetle. I can't get my wife out of hers. Of course, she bought and drove both a Pontiac Astra and a Mustang II (this was before I met her).
Postmaster
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From: Las Vegas
PB, the trans/throttle lag was the MAIN reason I dumped our '02 Lexus. (1st year of the 5 speed auto)
The dealer said it was the way the car was programmed so as not to "jolt" the occupants.
Is it now an aknowledged problem????
On a side note: I do wish my Fords had the fit and materials the Lexus had...however, the paint on our Fords seems much more durable if not as well applied.
The dealer said it was the way the car was programmed so as not to "jolt" the occupants.
Is it now an aknowledged problem????
On a side note: I do wish my Fords had the fit and materials the Lexus had...however, the paint on our Fords seems much more durable if not as well applied.
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From: Melbourne, Aus
"I pulled up next to a Ford F-350, and I could hear my valve train clicking louder than his diesel," said Clingenpeel, whose Avalon is his family's third Toyota.
One thing I noticed in that article, the customer wasn't even going to give Toyota another chance. Something I think will be universal with thier consumers. If you set such a high standard in terms of reliability, and you attract the majority of your customers through this reliability, your customers won't just expect a continuation (or even an improvement) of this reliability, they will demand it - and they will jump brand at the slightest indication of a reduction of quality (like we might be seeing here).
You are (in many ways) just setting yourself up to fail... as the brand loyalty you attained will just dissapear in front of you.
One thing I noticed in that article, the customer wasn't even going to give Toyota another chance. Something I think will be universal with thier consumers. If you set such a high standard in terms of reliability, and you attract the majority of your customers through this reliability, your customers won't just expect a continuation (or even an improvement) of this reliability, they will demand it - and they will jump brand at the slightest indication of a reduction of quality (like we might be seeing here).
You are (in many ways) just setting yourself up to fail... as the brand loyalty you attained will just dissapear in front of you.
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Interesting point BigF350, but I'm not sure I agree.
Someone who's always driven, say, Toyotas who decides to try Ford and gets a bad one will jump ship and run back to Toyota; they'll probably tell everyone they know that they should have known better than to try anything American, etc.
Someone who has owned Fords and goes to Toyota, and gets a bad one, may decide that they were better off with Ford, or may think that since Toyota has such a great reputation, they MUST have gotten one of the very rare bad ones, and try again.
I read a book about the redesign of the Taurus for 1996 (Car, by Mary Walton; very interesting book, btw) that claimed there was a certain "shame" (for some people) in having trouble with a Japanese car. Something along the lines of "Everyone knows they're reliable, so it must be my fault this one isn't good."
I'm not sure I whole-heartedly agree with that, but it is something to ponder, for sure.
Someone who's always driven, say, Toyotas who decides to try Ford and gets a bad one will jump ship and run back to Toyota; they'll probably tell everyone they know that they should have known better than to try anything American, etc.
Someone who has owned Fords and goes to Toyota, and gets a bad one, may decide that they were better off with Ford, or may think that since Toyota has such a great reputation, they MUST have gotten one of the very rare bad ones, and try again.
I read a book about the redesign of the Taurus for 1996 (Car, by Mary Walton; very interesting book, btw) that claimed there was a certain "shame" (for some people) in having trouble with a Japanese car. Something along the lines of "Everyone knows they're reliable, so it must be my fault this one isn't good."
I'm not sure I whole-heartedly agree with that, but it is something to ponder, for sure.
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Originally Posted by john112deere
EDIT: Red Star, a LOT of people take Consumer Reports seriously. I know poeple who chose vehicles within a class (i.e. - midsize sedan) solely on Comsumer Reports. CR says the Camry and Accord are the best midsize sedans, they go find the best price they can on one of those in a color they like.
Postmaster
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From: Marion, VA
Originally Posted by Red Star
Nobody takes Consumer Reports seriously.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
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From: Melbourne, Aus
I don't know - I used to have a Focus ST as a company car, that car took a lickin, and kept on kickin.
The brakes/transmission/ride/handling were all approaching Porsche levels of brilliance. Pity it didn't have enough poke to be what I would call a "hot hatch"... And I was never a fan of the interior in Mk 1 Foci
The brakes/transmission/ride/handling were all approaching Porsche levels of brilliance. Pity it didn't have enough poke to be what I would call a "hot hatch"... And I was never a fan of the interior in Mk 1 Foci
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From: Racine county, WI
Originally Posted by Red Star
Nobody takes Consumer Reports seriously.