Hey all, I need some help...
I replaced my spark plugs a few days ago, and I always like to use my vacuum guage, dwell/tach meter and double check my timing - although that is more vacuum/sound than timing light for me. I was told harmonic balancers aren't to be trusted because the outer ring can move and the marks can be off. Anyway, changed the plugs, hooked up all the tools and started her up. everything seemed ok... dwell at 32, autolites gapped at .030 according to the book ('70 302)dwell a little higher but I'm running a flamethrower coil and pertronix ignition(points replacement). but I did notice that my vacuum guage(teed into the retard side on a dual port vacuum advance diaphram and the line to rear top of the manifold) read like 12 degrees. Now if I remember correctly on a previous check it read like 19-20. I know normal is 17-22 and 19-20 is typically what I shoot for. Knowing this pinched the vac line just above the diaphram port and sure enough the guage jumped up to 19. I disconnected at the port- and plugged with my finger, stayed at 19 and rpms up 100, connected back to the port, back down to 10-12 and rpms dropped 100 - distributor vacuum leak? possible? I take it out on the road it runs fine accelerates fine. but the last couple of days it's been really acting strange. when starting cold it might crank a couple of times, then stop, won't crank, then crank but won't start, won't crank, then just crank and I'll have to pump the pedal to for it to catch, it catches but really runs rough at first then finally idle picks up, then once I'm rolling it's fine again, acceleration everything seems normal say I stop for a minute turning it off, then start it again - fine. I'm baffled... is my starter going bad, is it vapor lock? I'm clueless... Any ideas? the pertronix is just four maybe five months old(coil too) plug wires, cap and rotor , a couple months old, carb is less than six months old (autolite 4100 remanufactured from Pony carbs, 4v intake from a 289, fuel pump is about 8-9 months old, distributor is remanufactured and put in at the time of the pertronix. Engine was rebuilt a little over a year ago. can't vouch for the starter. thanks for any help.

 

With the crank, stop, crank again symptom; it sounds like your timing is too advanced. I have yet to see the outer ring slip on the harmonic balancer, but here is a way to check it. Take a sparkplug and knock out the insulator. Find a metal rod that will slid in the plug. Even better is to rig up a spring that will pull the rod toward the engine side of the plug. Now put #1 piston almost to the top of the cylinder. Install the plug and rod, put a dial indicator point touching the top of the rod. Slowly turn the engine over by hand, watching the indicator. May have to check a couple of times, but you will know when TDC is reached. If the timing mark also shows TDC, your balancer is ok. Also, I check vacuum at the manifold vacuum fitting.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-Jun-02 AT 10:41 AM (EST)]now this is strange, went out to start her up this morning , and she fired right up.. maybe one crank, caught and went into normal fast warmup idle. I tapped the pedal and it kicked down to lower idle, waited a couple of minutes and tapped again and it kicked down to normal curb idle. Now I'm wondering... it was about 70 degrees when I did this, and the few previous times when I had trouble it was 85+..
I have headers with no heat shield (got one just haven't put it on yet) is it possible my starter or starter soleoid is going bad? I also checked my chilton's manual regarding testing the dual port vacuum diaphram on my distributor and ts functioning properly according to the manual. I was looking at Summitt racing's website, they have a "Ford Racing" mini- high torque starter for small blocks for $150, I haven't compared to a stock remanufactured starter - what can I expect to pay?

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-Jun-02 AT 06:10 PM (EST)]even worse, yeah she was fine this morning. didn't drive her all day, went out this evening, got to around 90 degrees today. she cranked like twice then nothing. wouldn't even crank for several minutes, then finally would turn over but wouldn't catch - until I started pumping the pedal. then ran so rough like gasping for air/fuel. Don't think it's timing because it was near perfect two days ago, and I haven't touch the distributor since maybe wednesday. is my problem compound? do I :
1. have starter problems related to heat?

2. fuel or vapor problems related to heat?

3. unkown problems?

Usually it's two pumps of the pedal and starts right up to fast warmup idle.

now it's maybe she'll crank, if she cranks maybe she'll start.

could it be electrical, problems with the pertronix setup?
I do notice a little whitish exhaust(mostly on the driver's side exhaust) when I finally get it started but it clears after few minutes. I've checked the oil for watery bubbly appearance as well as the coolant for oil appearance, both look fine.

Any ideas?

 

Well, the first thing to do is to solve the cranking problem. Are your battery cables and connections in perfect shape? I like to make my own cables out of welding cable. You can get a larger gauge and they last almost forever. Try this, put a voltmeter across the battery terminals while someone starts the engine. A good battery will drop from 12.6 volts to maybe 10 or so while cranking. If it drops a lot lower, the battery is bad, not fully charged or is too small for your truck. A battery that is fine for a 302 is marginal in my 390. If the engine doesn't crank and the battery voltage only drops a small amount, the problem is the cables, connections, or starter. You can also use the voltmeter to check for voltage drop at the output of the solinoid. I've had fun with re-built starters. Put one in, it drew current but wouln't crank. Took it back and got another one. It would crank ok but made noise. Found an old one in my garage and it worked fine. Also make sure that your alternator is charging ok, should have 13.5 to 14 volts when the battery is charged.

 

ok this morning I did the following:

checked the fuel filter(s) - ok, tested the battery - register almost 14v, tested the coil - ok, tested each plug wire - 5 of 8 registered 10 on the ohms scale (set at x100), the other three registered over 10, near 11 so I replaced those (have a complete back up set) with three which readings matched the other five (Borg Warner select w/ supermag core 7mm - any good?). checked the lead to the starter - good although some cracked insulation - but still good reading. checked my choke movement - free, and it started right up, adjusted my fast idle to 1500 and my kick down / curb idle to 750, double checked the timing and dwell. ( dwell read 32, timing shows 6 degrees when all hoses are connected and jumps to about 12 when I pinch the vacuum line (retard side from manifold). still doing that weird vac guage thing - shows about 12 when all connections are normal and drops a little to like 8 when I up the throttle but at regular idle with the retard side vacuum line pinched it reads 19 and jumps to 20 when I throttle up. it's about 90 degrees out now and I just tried to start it - same thing as before a couple of cranks then nothing. Am I crazy or is something reacting to ambient temperature outside, anything over 80 degrees seems to practically lock her up even after sitting for like three-four hours - could the voltage regulator have a problem? Somebody , anybody?

 

As long as the alternator and voltage regulator keep your battery charged, they are working ok. Have you tried a different starter?

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-Jun-02 AT 07:15 AM (EST)]that's the next step. I just bought one of those hitork after market minis off of ebay, just have to wait til it shows up. then hope it's the problem. I am also looking into replacing the distributor with an Accel or Proform, etc...,sure I could go with another remanufactured unit and just use my existing pertonix, but the distributor in there now is only a few months old. my concern is the possible vacuum leak there, plus I have the dual port vacuum diaphram to deal with, any experience with those? what happens to the retard vacuum line when you make the conversion I only see single vacuum units offered in the electronic units?

 

Hi,
Just a thought. Starter solinoids can do weird things. Here is a quick and easy check. The next time your cranking problem occurs jump out with some jumper cables. Connect one end to the "+" side of your battery and touch the other end to the stud on the starter side of your solinoid. WARNING! Make sure your in neutral if it's a M/T!! The starter had better be running. If not then the contacts in the solinoid are bad. It is important that you connect the cables in the sequence I wrote. You will probably get a spark when you touch the stud. That's normal. You do not want to get the spark at the battery as you could have a "KA-BOOM". Keep us posted and good luck.
Lee

 

You don't need booster cables to do this,That would be overkill!
A 14 gauge wire will work.

Also,it wasn't mentioned, Make sure you touch the "S" terminal on the solenoid and not the "I" terminal (if it has one that is).
Some do,Some don't

[font color=red]Dennis

Calgary,Alberta,Canada[/font]
[link:www.ford-trucks.com/guidelines.html|FTEModerator]

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Please Don't Ask Me Any Tough Questions,
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[font color=blue]78 F-150 429CJ,Silver,Explorer Pkg.
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Hi Dennis; your test is different from Lee's. He is by-passing the solinoid to see if the main contacts are bad. Your test is by-passing the ignition switch. This is also a good test. I sometimes bump over the engine by touching a screwdriver from the battery side to the S terminal. Regards, Mike

 

while we're on the subject, and I'm waiting for my starter to show, I picked up a Mallory unilite distributor today. this unit has no vacuum diaphram on it and the guy told to just plug the vacuum lines , that this distributor would take care of it. I'm going to wait on the install of this until I try the starter. After $250 spent I don't want it to not solve the problem. After reading the removal / install instructions it mentions a ignition ballast resistor or loom wire needed or the unit could be eventually damaged. this is to be installed between the ignition and the coil. It occurs to me that if is needed for the Mallory and I don't have it, could it be the pertronix needs it too and that could be part of my current problem? and if I do have it where would it be located. I can't really find a reference in my chilton manual other than a "resistor wire test" in the Dura spark section. for 74 and up vehicles. Naturally my 70 was equipped with points and wouldn't have a resistor wire - right?

 

>Hi Dennis; your test is different from Lee's. He is
>by-passing the solinoid to see if the main contacts are bad.
>Your test is by-passing the ignition switch. This is also a
>good test. I sometimes bump over the engine by touching a
>screwdriver from the battery side to the S terminal.
>Regards, Mike

I'm beginning to think I need someone to read these things.

I can't believe how I missed that.



[font color=red]Dennis

Calgary,Alberta,Canada[/font]
[link:www.ford-trucks.com/guidelines.html|FTEModerator]

http://www.clubfte.com/users/mil1ion/Minimorleytruck.JPG

http://www.clubfte.com/users/mil1ion/Mil1ion.html

[font color=red]
Please Don't Ask Me Any Tough Questions,
"I'm Saving My Memory For When I Develop Alzheimer's" [/font]

[font color=blue]78 F-150 429CJ,Silver,Explorer Pkg.
[/font]

 

Tryppster; your 70 does have a resistence wire. If you run without a vacuum advance, you will lower mpg. Fix one problem at a time. I'll never get any sleep until your truck cranks up every time.

Dennis: the worst thing I ever did was jack up the engine in a 65 stang without raising the hood.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 04-Jun-02 AT 07:12 AM (EST)]Your right, Tom Petty had it right, "the waiting is the hardest part". Ok I remembered that I have a remote starter switch so here's what I did:
Test 1 -try to start normally (with the key) - no go same sympton

Test 2 - connected remote to +battery and "s" on solenoid, turn key to "on" used remote -took several cranks but finally caught - very rough but gradually worked up to fast idle - initially lots of white smoke, particularly passenger side exhaust, let it continue to run at fast idle, white exhaust eventually cleared to barely visible. after a couple of minutes hit the throttle to allow kick down, engine drop down to curb idle but idling rough. checked the retard vacuum side by unplugging, idled slightly up , plug line with finger, idled slightly down, unplugged -slightly up, reconnected to diaphram port, idled slightly down. tried to throttle a little - stalled and died. tried to restart using key - would crank ok but wouldn't catch or even try to without pumping accelerator.

Answer 1: most likely starter solenoid is bad or going bad. ...

and my problems extend beyond that...