Ok, I went to buy an old FE block 360 engine. The seller says it was rebuilt in 1997 and only started to test-run it, never actually was driven.

It sat on his patio since 1997 (I think, it may have sat other places).

When I got there, I looked things over. There was very little oil in the engine, I had to put a full gallon in to get it to the "safe" mark on the dipstick.

There was rust on the cam. That was a little worrisome. There also looked to be a good deal of sludge on the top of the piston, but I wasn't too worried about that. The cylinder walls I couldn't tell if they were OK, but one of them looked like there was a slight lip up near the top, not sure if that's normal.

The engine had been sitting on the oil pan, is that OK? He scooted it around some and it sounded like the oil pan was really getting dented in. Most exterior pieces were rusted a lot, besides the block, the block wasn't rusty.

The seller had one of the valve covers off, and he used jumper cables off his car to apply power to turn the starter (with the plugs removed) until oil was seen flowing out of the little oil holes above the valves. It was barely seeping out, I dunno if it should have flowed more or not.

After turning the starter for a couple minutes at least, I checked the compression. One cylinder started at like 60 PSI and gradually built up to 90 PSI, another cylinder started lower and only got up to 60 PSI. All the cylinders were 90 PSI or lower, some of them were as low as 60 PSI.

One of the cylinders did read about 120 psi but not at first, it started low and gradually built up to 120 psi after several cranks.

I think they should have all been at least 120 PSI or more, but I don't know.

After I left he said he realized that we didn't block open the throttle plates, he said that might have screwed up the compression test. But why would some cylinders get higher compression (LOTS higer) than others?

Also he wanted me to pour oil down the spark plug holes then try, but I didn't see any point because this "wet test" wouldn't mean the rings were good. The rings are bad on my other engine and they read fine when I do a wet test.... so that doesn't really help

So, I didn't buy the engine. He wanted $500 for it and I figured I would rather pay $800 for a long block from this local place, where I know it's nice and new.

Did I make a mistake do you think? Could this guy's engine be perfectly fine, but we just didn't lube it enough before doing the compression test? Wouldn't enough oil get on the piston walls just from cranking the starter for so long?

I hope I didn't condemn this engine wrongly, but I just couldn't be sure it was any good. We probably should have done the "spin oil pump with a power drill" thing but I didn't have a drill and neither did the guy and he didn't think it was necessary, so I didn't go buy the stuff to do it.

Anyways please tell me what you think.

 

At $500. I would expect more from the engine. Sitting on the pan won't hurt anything, and it likely did cosmetic scratches, but again, for that kind of money, it should be better. On compression tests, the lowest cylinder should read no less that 20% of the highest. Sitting for a time like that, it can be deceiving, but all the oil would do is seal the rings, and it is hard to call if it was due to sitting or engine wear, so still, for the price, may not be any bargain. The lip is kindo of normal, but not good to see necessarly, but sometimes it's just carbon built up. If you can get a rebuilt locally for $800, you're better served to go that route.

 

This lip wasn't carbon build up, I could see it very clearly, it was nothing but shiny iron.

Also, you say the lip is kind of normal, but normal on an engine that SUPPOSEDLY just got rebuilt, and has zero miles on it? That don't make sense to me, I thought when you rebuild an engine the cylinder walls get honed.

For example, I just read this on some web page:

"With the head off you can feel the upper half inch of cylinder wall for any ridge. The maximum amount of cylinder ware will be at the point on the cylinder where the top ring stops. The ware on the cylinder wall will somewhat diminish further down the wall until the area that the rings stop at the bottom where it increases again. To determine what that cylinder will clean up at when bored you need to measure the bore at the most worn place (just below the top ridge) and at 90 degrees to the crank or piston pin. "

This lip or ridge was visible through the spark plug hole and it looked pretty deep, it looked to me like the cylinder wall had worn down.

Another thing I forgot to mention, he had removed some of the intake manifold bolts and stuck them through links in the chain to use to lift the engine. I wasn't really happy with this, especially since the engine was supposed to be ready to use, and now I"m not sure if the intake gaskets would seal after he removed some of the bolts.

It also supposedly included a good carbeurtor, but the carburator top was detached and he was so rough and careless moving the engine out onto the patio that when he lifted it with the picker, the chain he was using started to crush in one side of the carburator opening. When I told him, he was like, meh, who cares.

Another weird thing is there was a 4 speed manual transmission attached to the engine, and there wasn't supposed to be, but he didn't end up removing it I guess... When we were cranking the engine, the output shaft of the transmission was spinning, even though the gearbox was in neutral... He said "Yeah the clutch plates are probably rusted together". Nice... Rusted to hell just like the rest of the engine.

Anyways thanks for replying, it makes me feel better about not buying the engine. I too expected more for $500. For example, there is a local guy selling an engine for $400 that is a 390, same block, but pulled out of a truck he just junked, has some miles on the engine but the truck was driven on a regular basis and the engine runs smooth and seems to be in good condition. I would feel safer buying that, even with 50,000 miles on it, than an engine that has sat for 9 years and has rust all over everywhere and doesn't even have over 60 psi compression in some cylinders.

I almost wonder if the guy was lying about the complete rebuild. Who knows. Either way, the more I think about what I saw, the more happy I am that I didn't buy it.

 

I didn't catch that it was supposedly just rebuilt, definitely not a good buy with all that going on, and the compression was definitely not a good thing in that light. You made the right choice in leaving it behind.

 

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IMO the 390 is a much better deal and will have more power. 50,000 is nothing for these FE's so you will have plenty of miles left on that engine.

Rust on the cam would have scared me off. I would replace a rusted cam it will chew up lifters.

I think you did the right thing by walking off...Did you charge the guy for the gallon of oil you donated?

jd

 

wow a 360 with 120 psi!! thats 15 more psi than i had!! Go for a 390 one way or another!! A 360 is only good for supporting oil refineries!

 

I doubt if it was rebuilt. If it was, he obviously didn't use any assembly lube on the cam. Also, he may have done a quick hone on the cylinders and thrown it back together. If there was a lip at the top, then it's pretty obvious the cylinder walls are tapered pretty badly. The rings would not likely last very long.

It sounds like an old tired 360.

Still, it has value. It could be the basis of a nice 390 build. I'd offer a maximum of $200 for it. Considering, you could probably get that out of the block and heads if you know where to sell them. Of course, I paid $35 for an old 360 off the side of the path up at the junkyard. It got used for spare parts for my 390. Come to find out, it has 428 cylinder wall cores!

 

Thanks so much for the replies!

I have another question:

We really NEED this truck, we need to get it running ASAP and for as cheap as possible.

I found another guy selling an engine, this one is a 390, he pulled it out of a truck that he junked.

He says "unknown miles" which is a little scary, but he says the engine was running good before it was removed from the truck. He also says "Guaranteed good!" and offers a 30 day guarantee. The engine has carb, alternator, power steering pump, water pump... basically everything on it. It also appears to be the exact same configuration as what my truck needs, unlike the 360 I looked at which was an older setup. This engine looks like a perfect fit, drop it right in and hook up the junk.

He is asking $450 or best offer. If I go look at it, and it passes compression tests, should I give him the $450? Or should I just make a lower offer for it? What would you guys suggest? What is an engine like this that my or may not be fine, worth?

If I could get it from him for cheap, I really like the idea of having a 390 instead of a 360, and maybe later if I have more time I can rebuilt this engine.

 

First, get the guarantee in writing, if something is wrong, you have the document to prove he guaranteed it, then you can dicker about price, that's always an option, unless you feel it really worth the pricetag and not worth trying to haggle. I have a friend that will haggle even though he knows full well it is worth the asking... and usually gets his way...

 

Talk is cheap, skip the unknowns. Do a compression test, look for sludge under the oil filler, look for cross-contamination. Fire it up and see how much oil pressure you have, listen to it run... You know, the usuall drill.

 

Sorry, I don't know the usual drill, and I don't know how to check oil pressure :S

How would I check the oil pressure?

Also the engine is on an engine stand, so I dunno how I could sltart it up and see how it sounds, unless the guy has a radiator and a gas tank we can hook up to, maybe more than that...I'm not sure what else would be needed...

 

I'm sure there are other opinions, but it won't be that dramatic to run the motor for a minute or two without coolant. You do not want the water pump to spin while it's dry.

The whole trick is to do the compression test first, this should move enough oil to prevent a dry start. Then put some fire in the bores, oil pressure should be up in 30 seconds. That's enough time to listen for any mechanical noises. My truck gets about 60 lbs cold on high idle.

To measure pressure buy one of those under dash mechanical gauges. If you don't already have one, you'll want one. Follow the instructions that come with the gauge.

IMHO, if the it comes with all the extras hanging on it, it's not that bad of a deal: If it's worth buying at all. Never hurts to ask what he'll take for it-cash in hand.