Ok guys I need some help. I have a 1965 Ford F-100 2wd Short Box. The current drivetrain contains a 352FE/4speed(T-10?). I want to drop in a hotter 390 (and I mean do mean hotter!!) with a toploader. My question lies with the tranny. Is the toploader a direct bolt on to the tranny cross member? If modifications are nessessary, what is the process so that this truck can accept a toploader. Any help would be very useful. Thanks!

Matt

 

Hi Matt, Everything should bolt right up. You probably will run into some issues with the drive shaft. The tranny ends could be different as well as the length, so be on the look out early, and get it back on the road sooner.

John

 

If you are planning on using the same top loader ( T-10 ) every thing will
bolt back in the same place and your drive shaft should work just fine.





Wally

 

1) Your current tranny is most likely a t-98 or t-18 if its original. If it is a T-10, then god knows what has been done to make it work. Furthermore, a T-10, being a car tranny as far as I know, whould have just gotten munched by that 352 long ago.

2) I am pretty sure that a "Toploader" will require some significant modifications of the stock tranny crossmember, in terms of the mount itself and perhaps the location of the corssmember. The cross member can be moved easily enough -- you need to cut the rivets out and drill new holes where you want it.

3) Unless you are a very lucky man, the drive shaft will need modification.

4) You sure that a toploader can be had to fit behind a 390? The 390 is an FE motor and I am not sure that those two were even paired together. But I don't follow that engine type too much. I also wonder if a Toploader can handle the 390.

5) Why not find a close ratio t-19 which is a bolt up to the t-98 or t-18 AND has syncro'd first gear, just like the toploader? OK, it'll still shift like a truck. But, then again -- its a truck..... Or if money is not a problem, a ZF 5 speed is a sweet tranny. Not cheap though....

 

First of all, a 352 will no more chew up a T10 than the man in the moon.

If in fact it is a T10, it was a car trans. And T10s have been behind all kinds of motors, mostly GM as Ford replaced the T10 with the Ford built toploader.

A T10 is a side-loaded externally shifted transmissioin. The Fort toploader is a top loaded externally shifted transmission. (Except for an "80s overdrive version)

I swapped a 303 three speed directly to a T 10 in my '65 Mustang, and then again directly to a toploader. Same bolts, input, output and crossmember.

Your mileage may vary as your application probably uses a different trans.

Toploaders were used behind 289s to 427s and everything in between.

The other transmissions listed in the previous post are truck transmissions and are stronger, but the ratios are much wider and the shifters are right out of the corn field.

Go here for toploader info:

http://www.4speedtoploaders.com/

This here would be your car T10. Note little reference to Ford for the T10 on this site. In 1980 when I was fooling around with my T10 for my Mustang, I couldn't get anyone to say "boo" about parts or fixing it. (it popped out of 2nd) I doubt it's much better now. The toploader is the way to go, IF YOU WANT THE CAR TYPE 4 SPEED.

http://www.mackstrans.com/BorgWarnerT10.html

 

Yep -- I stand corrected about the durability of a toploader. And it indeed seems to have been used behind 390 in some CARS.

Still would be quite pessimistic about being able to use the original tranny crossmemnber and mount without some mods. Ditto drive shaft. UNless of course you really do have a T10, in which case, the previous poster seems reassuring that you can jusr drop a Toploader in there.

 

The original tranny crossmember will work, I think I used some OE holes in the frame, can't remember for sure. I used the T10 tranny mount for a 60's Mustang with a T10. You will need to shorten your driveline since the T10 has a longer tailshaft than any of the truck trannys. Unless it is a T10 now in which case the Top Loader will bolt right in place. Another place for Top Loader info is David Kee Top Loaders, there are a couple variants. The T10 lasted 10 years in my truck with synthetic gear oil with many trailer pulling miles. I hope the Top Loader now installed lasts longer!!!

 

Ok, so it would probably be a safe bet that this truck does not contain a T-10, but either a T-18 or T-98, both of which have an insanely low first gear (something I don't want). If I were to aquire a narrow bolt pattern toploader (wide ratio), I some of you guys said that I would need to move the transmission mount back so that it can bolt right up. The reason I would want to use this is because I want to make this truck into a street machine rather than a work truck (and so that the fast,hard shift from first to second won't dislocated my shoulder!). Plus the wide ratio toploader has a lower first gear than the close ratio (maybe this will help because of the extra weight since this is not a car and that the rear end possibley contains 4.10:1 gears?). Also, I just aquired a bellhousing that will mate an FE up to a narrow bolt pattern toploader (C3AA-6394-A). And I'm not too worried about making a custom driveshaft. So here are some more questions.
1) Is the shifter location of a toploader going to interfer with the seat?

2) Since the toploader is a longer transmission all together than the T-18 (tailshaft), how would I be able to compensate the driveshaft angle? Would it just involve different U-joints or something different all together?

3) Understanding that the transmission mount needs to be moved back, are there holes already drilled in the frame from the factory or would I have to drill them myself?

4) If I did decide to scrap the whole toploader idea all-together and just go with a close ratio T-19 like what cdherman said, what would the gear ratios be? What vehicals did they come in and what is the method of identifying a T-19 versues a T-98 or a T-18? Does the T-19 shift all the way to the dashboard into first gear like the others?

I really appreciate all the help you guys have given me, so thanks a lot!

 

Looking at those websites mentioned above, the torque rating on the stock toploader is pretty good on the narrow ratio units and will hold up to a stock 390. But the wide ratios were rated at a max torque of something like 250 pounds. far less than the output of a 390. Severl companies make special built toploaders that can take the abuse, but they cost $$$.

As for the Borg-Warner option. There are close ratio T18's and T19's, but a close ratio for a B-W unit is still a wide ratio for everyone else, they just don't have a compound Low gear. Generaly, people treat a T98, T18, or T19 like a 3 speed. 2nd gear is around 3:1, so equil to most other first gears. T19's have T19 stamped on the side of them.

 

1. Yes it will, but you can change the shifter handle to clear the seat.

2. The angle does not change enough to need any changes to the u joints or driveline except shortening to fit the space.

3. Like I mentioned I THINK there are holes, but it has been so long I can't tell you for sure the holes I am using are OE.

4. I cannot help there, not familiar with the T19, 98, 18 trannys.

There are a few pic's in my gallery of the trans and I think the shifter, if not just let me know what you would like to see.

The Top Loader is plenty strong for a well built 390, they were the factory trans for the 427 and 428 motors.

 

Hey Metallica fan, I've actually got a top-loader 4spd (I think the same as what you have) behind my 390 in my '65. I just replaced the clutch (last year) and am still familiar with the underside, even though I didn't build the truck.
I have an Indy Hearst shifter and it doesn't have any problems clearing the seat.
The person that built my truck must have shortened the driveline based on the above posts.
I don't have any EXTRA holes in my frame and didn't have any issues bolting up my tranny, so it would seem to me that it's a "bolt-in" replacement.
I can't help with your 4th question either.

I can tell you that my toploader has no issues smoking the tires (although she hasn't been driven since November last year) but does need a rebuild. Currently I have to double clutch from 3rd to 4th. The people that had her before me abused her, so I'm pretty sure that is the cause for the rebuild, (they couldn't figure out how to adjust the clutch) and not the power behind the lightly mod'd 390, Edel carb and manifold and headers. I say go with the top-loader!

 

The 4 speed in my '66 is a Top Loader as is the 3 speed behind it(heavy duty version).