Fish Eye?
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From: St. Peter
Fish Eye?
Alllrighty! Just got finished putting the clear coat on my F150 and it has HORRIBLE fish eye (like dimples in the clear coat) The whole surface was cleaned with pre-cleaner and wiped down. I'm thinking the clulprit is water. I put a water seperator on the line, so my setup went Gun, water seperator, regulator, hose. Well, the connection between the regulator and the hose had some water dripping out of it, and go figure, the tool shop brand water seperator was completely dry/empty. So i'm guessing it wasnt quite working right. Now, here's the question....
How do i get rid of the fish eye? Will it just buff out? Do i have to put on another coat of clear with a better water seperator? The fish eye is really horrible. Whats the solution for this? Thanks in advance!
How do i get rid of the fish eye? Will it just buff out? Do i have to put on another coat of clear with a better water seperator? The fish eye is really horrible. Whats the solution for this? Thanks in advance!
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: USA
Your description sounds more like orange peel versa's fisheye.Usually fisheye is a result of grease ,wax or oil from hands on the surface.
Orange peel is a result of wrong temp reducer(flowout,leveling or speed of gun movement) drying time. Also if this was a basecoat clearcoat job ,if the basecoat had orange peel before cc was appplied the clear will just bring out the surface of the basecoat.
Rich
Orange peel is a result of wrong temp reducer(flowout,leveling or speed of gun movement) drying time. Also if this was a basecoat clearcoat job ,if the basecoat had orange peel before cc was appplied the clear will just bring out the surface of the basecoat.
Rich
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Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Northern California
I had this happen to a hood I did a while back and ended up sanding back down to flat surface and re-shooting the hood. The problem is that in order to fix the dimples, you have to sand the whole thing down to where the bottom of the dimple is. Then compound and polish back to shine.
If the bottom of the dimple is very low, you end up removing several coats of paint.
Was the cleaner a professional brand? I've stopped using anything but PPG wax remover. What about tacking off after cleaning with a tack rag?
As far as water in the system, I got a cheap second tank 22 gals, run a hose from the compressor to the second tank, water filter, hose, throw away filters, gun. the second tank causes the air to expand then cool down. Seems to get rid of all my water problems.
You can also put an additive into your mix for fish eyes.
I'd start by wet sanding down to the bottom of the dimples in one area and see how much you have to take off to fix it. then if you have to re-shoot, you can isolate the bad areas and just re-shoot them.
If the bottom of the dimple is very low, you end up removing several coats of paint.
Was the cleaner a professional brand? I've stopped using anything but PPG wax remover. What about tacking off after cleaning with a tack rag?
As far as water in the system, I got a cheap second tank 22 gals, run a hose from the compressor to the second tank, water filter, hose, throw away filters, gun. the second tank causes the air to expand then cool down. Seems to get rid of all my water problems.
You can also put an additive into your mix for fish eyes.
I'd start by wet sanding down to the bottom of the dimples in one area and see how much you have to take off to fix it. then if you have to re-shoot, you can isolate the bad areas and just re-shoot them.
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From: St. Peter
Sorry bout that last post, i had to type it in like 3 seconds. But anyway, yeah, it doesnt look like orange peel to me. and the paint under it was almost flawless. Its like basically dimples in the paint. So whats the verdict? Re-shoot the clear coat and then sand? There's airbrushing under it, and that would really present a problem if I sanded through to that. Or will it just buff/sand out? We put on a coat that was tacky and sand-papery, let that tack up for a couple min while we mixed a new batch of clear and loaded the gun, then sprayed the final coat.
Also, on the instruction sheet for the paint, it said that "water spot free in 10 hours" Are these the dimples that they're refering to? I was assuming it meant hazy spots in the clear coat? I guess i'll see when i go out to my gf's house next. I havent seen it since like 2 hours after i cleared it.
Also, on the instruction sheet for the paint, it said that "water spot free in 10 hours" Are these the dimples that they're refering to? I was assuming it meant hazy spots in the clear coat? I guess i'll see when i go out to my gf's house next. I havent seen it since like 2 hours after i cleared it.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Virginia Beach,Va
Wet sand what you have now, VERY CAREFULLY. Use 1500 or 3000 grit paper with lots of water and a little dish soap for lubricant.
Stick to the flat surfaces. Get it as good as you can for smoothness without sanding thru.
Re-clear & hammer it hard with a good thick coat, so that you can sand & buff that if needed.
Stick to the flat surfaces. Get it as good as you can for smoothness without sanding thru.
Re-clear & hammer it hard with a good thick coat, so that you can sand & buff that if needed.
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From: St. Peter
Thanks for the help everyone, that's probably what i'll wind up doing. I'll have to get a good water remover, and maybe i'll use some fish eye reducer too.
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Post Fiend
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From: USA
Originally Posted by Peter94
verdict? We put on a coat that was tacky and sand-papery, let that tack up for a couple min while we mixed a new batch of clear and loaded the gun, then sprayed the final coat.
Also, on the instruction sheet for the paint, it said that "water spot free in 10 hours" Are these the dimples that they're refering to? I was assuming it meant hazy spots in the clear coat? I guess i'll see when i go out to my gf's house next. I havent seen it since like 2 hours after i cleared it.
Also, on the instruction sheet for the paint, it said that "water spot free in 10 hours" Are these the dimples that they're refering to? I was assuming it meant hazy spots in the clear coat? I guess i'll see when i go out to my gf's house next. I havent seen it since like 2 hours after i cleared it.
The tacky/sandpapery coat was the problem. That was a dry coat of clear causing orange peel not fisheye.
You can fix it by wet sanding with water lightly 1000 grit maybe 800 if careful.
And just reclear .Make sure you read the label for the procedure .Because some bc/cc require resanding anyway if after 24hrs of dry time.
sometimes orange peel can be buffed out.the new types of clear actually will be reflowed by the heat of the buffer and compound .
if its all over the vehicle your better off wet sanding though.
Water spot free in 10 hrs means the vehicle could be put outside in a rain storm or washed in that length of ti,e and not cause spotting in the clear.
Rich
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An excessive amount of reducer mixed with the clear-coat can cause problems also. I don't know if it is the "fisheye" you are talking about, but it looks like tiny pits or air bubbles in the finish. If you have good coverage you should be able to wet-sand then buff it out as others have suggested.
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From: St. Peter
Yeah, lets get some definitions here. When i think of orange peel i'm thinking of a wrinkly finish on the truck, like the outside of an orange peel. When i think of fish eye, i think of spots or dimples on the truck. Thanks so far, everyones helping out alot! I guess the next step is going to be to get over there and try buffing/sanding/re-shooting.
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From: St. Peter
hey, okay like check this out, in this pic http://66.34.72.138/howto/paint/orange-peel-1.jpg where the light is shining, the bottom is where the cc is on thicker, which is what the truck looks like, and above that there's orange peel which my truck has nothing that looks like that on it, and to the right is what i would call fish eye but my truck has them everywhere.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: USA
Okay ,yes orange peeel is where the light is,fisheye is down and to the right.
You may have oily/water in your air system if its all over the truck.
need to get that filter system going.
We are on the same page as far as descriptions now.
Rich
You may have oily/water in your air system if its all over the truck.
need to get that filter system going.
We are on the same page as far as descriptions now.
Rich
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From: St. Peter
okay, cool, but yeah, last time i cheap out and buy a water seperator from menards. I guess you live and learn.
Okay, what do i need, i was at menards again looking at the water seperators and there was one that said it was a water filter, which removes dirt/dust/water from the line. Is this what i'm looking for or do i need a WATER SEPERATOR that removes like all of the water regardless? Thanks!
Okay, what do i need, i was at menards again looking at the water seperators and there was one that said it was a water filter, which removes dirt/dust/water from the line. Is this what i'm looking for or do i need a WATER SEPERATOR that removes like all of the water regardless? Thanks!