Johnny8, I totally agree with you. High energy prices will drive this county into a recession. All the while, big oil will bank big.

If you think diesel and gas (what I use for now) prices are bad now, wait until about July-August. Then watch the prices as the hurricanes roll in.

Around here, they are raising prices so fast that they can't get the signs changed quick enough. <----Not a joke.

Mike

 

i know it is NO JOKE.. man i am NOT laughing... and the full production in the Gulf has not been restored from the damage caused by last year's hurricanes... the only thing that i think is wrong is the recession... i think we are gonna go right past that and into full blown depression... i hope i am wrong... but i doubt it... if you look close, the signs are already visible... the only thing saving us at this point is the fact that most people haven't noticed them yet...

EDIT: as proof of the scale of how fast things have gotten bad, 3 years ago when i bought my PSD, i could buy diesel for $1.59 a gallon.... yesterday, i paid $2.79 for fuel that is actually HARMFULL to the fuel pumps and fuel injectors in my truck, so i had to add about $5 worth of fuel suplement to the fuel i bought in order to prevent any damage to these components in my truck..!!! this is an increase of over 175% in just 3 years..!!! if you applied that same kind of madness to the $28k i spent to buy my truck used 3 years ago, it would cost $49,000 dollars to buy that same used truck today...!!! now, how many of you are in the market for a used F350 diesel with 60k miles and you are willing to pay $49k for one..? i don't see many of you raising your hands out there..! this is the lie that we are being told... "costs have gone up so prices have to go up..." ya sure... that's just so much BS i can't swallow anymore of it... you don't see any other prices on any other product or service going up like that, and you won't.... we are being SCREWED every time we go to the pump..!!!!

 

The sad part is that there are alternative energy sources out there that are totally ignored.

I only hope that soon I can afford a nice diesel pickup to replace my 5.4 F150. I will definitely be making biodiesel. But it won't really matter as it will be less than a drop in the bucket.

Another thing that will get us is taxes. The government runs on diesel and gas. Not just federal either. I'm talking about local. I work for a city in the Public Works as well as the Fire Department. I just put $100 into one of our F250 PSDs today. That will last about a week. Think about this

-3 F250 diesels
-1 E450 diesel
-1 E350 diesel
-2 GMC 8500s with CATs
-1 Freightliner street sweeper with a Cummins
-4 firetrucks (14L Detroit 60, 12.7L Detroit 60, and 2 huge diesels that I'm not sure of.
-15 police cars
-probably 10 other vehicles.

I don't even want to know what our weekly fuel bill is. Guess who pays for that? You and I. Even more money out of our pocket for fuel.

Don't even get me started on natural gas, fuel oil, or electricity (fuel energy converted to a different form in most cases)

Mike

 

hey man... you hit the nail right on the head...EVERYTHING, and i really mean EVERYTHING is effected by the price of fuel... and we are sitting on the top of a downward spiral that isn't going to end until everything has hit rock bottom.... i talked to a contractor today who spends over $1000 per day on the trucks that he has to have on the road to keep his buisness going... how long till he has to raise his prices... then he looses some work... then he has to take a truck of the road to save money... and layoff the crew that worked that truck... repeat this scenario a few hundred thousand or a few million times, then i and hundreds of thousands of guys like me in support buisnesses are out of work... and the whole thing starts to feed off of itself until we have a depression... and the guys who made the BILLIONS selling gas and diesel today won't care any more then than they do now....

 

How 'bout everybody slow down and take a little breather. No need get personal.

 

The fuel business is undisputably a supply and demand economy. When demand approaches or exceeds supply, what happens? Simple, price goes up. If the large petroleum companies could fix fuel prices at a high level, I truly believe it would have happened many years ago when the supply was plentiful.
Why has the cost of petroleum always been so low? Because we have always had ample supply. That is no longer the case.
I know people who could not get their orders for diesel filled last October because not enough fuel was available.
That's about to happen again.
When fuel prices get too high, people will stop buying it and the price will stablize. The roads will empty of SUV's and large pickups and become populated with geo metro's and volkswagen TDI's.
I havn't noticed that happening yet.

 

the construction company i work is 6 tri axle dumps and 10 semis plus 8 pick ups and excavators,dozers etc there fuel bill alone last year was over a million

 

ok.. here it is... economics 101, very basic... and nothing personal mister moderator...
sell price - expenses = net profits
sell price + (10% increase) - expenses (10% increase) = net profits (same profit margins & same bottom line)
sell price + (175% increase over 3 years) - expenses (unexplained increases) = record breaking profits..? huh..?
i'm sorry mister wizard, but this math does NOT add up... supply and demand only effect "speculation" on the cost of "future" production, not what is already produced and delivered and sitting in the tank in the ground at my local station, but they run right out and change the price i have to pay, and they do it everyday..!!!!
This is called "PROFIT MONGERING"..!!!! there is NO OTHER WAY to explain it... and the profit statements at the end of each year are the PROOF that i am right... don't believe me if you choose not too... but re-read this post 1 year from now and tell me then that i was wrong now... i will wager you won't be able to honestly do so...

 

Quote from earlier:
"The reasons behind high prices for Americans are numerous, here is a list of a few:

Tensions in the Middle East, namely Iran which is the second largest oil producer in OPEC (nuclear program)

Lack of ability to explore domestic oil and gas. There is enough KNOWN oil and gas in fields that have yet to be developed (because of government regulations) that could reduce the US dependance on foriegn oil by 85%. If we explore and produce all of our potential reservoirs, it is very likely that we could become independent of foriegn oil and gas for the next 50+ years.

Tree Huggers, Green Peace, the EPA and all the other environmental organizations. These guys do not understand how environmentally friendly the oil field really is, most of them probably drive through producing oil fields and don't even know it. They create these regulations out of ingnorance and do not realize the economic effects on the nation."

Oil companies are producing as much oil as they can. The refineries are at 100%. Supply and demand and politics control the price of oil, not oil companies.

One more note on history: In 1981 the price of oil hit $77 per barrel if you factor in inflation thats over $90 per barrel. This works out to prices at the pump in the $5-$7 range. The oil boom-bust in the 1980's occured due to politics (ie OPEC's oil embargo).

Bottom line:
Oil companies do not control the price, consumers do.
The government could help relax the problem by reducing fuel taxes and allowing more drilling and exploration (this would increase supply).
Bio-fuels are a good thing, it is a new technology and will surely become more cost effective in the years to come.

And as a final note on the point of me thinking I am an expert. Considering the oil and gas industry is where I grew up, my family has over 85 years of experience in the oil and gas industry. I have worked in the oil patch all of my life, from roughnecking to engineering, needless to say I have seen the business.

Considering the people involved in this conversation, I would consider myself somewhat of an expert.

To validate all of this I will leave you with some links:

The Oil and Gas Journal online
www.ogj.com

This article discusses the current prices and what has influenced it (notice the nuclear standoff with Iran in the third paragraph)
http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/arti..._ID=252806&p=7

This article discusses how Chad has shut down production (reducing supplies, raising costs)
http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/arti..._ID=252798&p=7

Other websites to check out:

www.API.org
www.SPE.org
www.energy.gov

This is my last post regarding this thread unless someone has a valid position and can actually defend the position intelligently. You are wasting my time.

 

i am NOT interested in reading PROPEGANDA writen by Oil and Gas journals and the like... i know what i am seeing and it isn't "supply and demand" or any other damn thing... this is PRICE GOUGING plain and simple... when you "speculate" that future costs will be higher than the costs of the fuel already produced, then you apply the "projected" increases to the fuel you have already DELIVERED... you are RIPPING PEOPLE OFF..!!! THIS is how you end up with RECORD PROFITS at the end of the year... funny how when Congress started to just talk about pulling some big oil executives into session to "explain" these record profits the prices at the pump started to fall... does anyone remember that about 6 months ago...? i do...!

 

talk about wasting your time... how does it feel to be a company stooge...?

 

you should be ashamed to try a foist this foolishness on decent people... i think they should call your but into congress and have you try and sell this snake oil to them..!

 

Demand has nothing to do with the cost of production.
It's the same phenomenon that allowed ford dealers to add $2000 a additional dealer markup sticker to the purchase price of my pickup back in 2000.
As long as people are willing to pay the price, it will continue to rise.

 

i have presented more logic and more "valid positions" and more intelligence then will even admit... your an automaton... go read more journals while you enable the degredation of our lifestyle...

 

you did NOT make ONE valid economic point in ANYTHING you posted... how does it feel to know that "John Q. Public" knows you are full of it...!