I have an '86 F250 (6.9L I believe) that is next to impossible to start. I freely admit that I know very little about the 'care and feeding' of a diesel engine. This is the first and most likely the last (unless I can figure out how to reliably start this thing) diesel engine vehicle I will own.

I have yet to figure out what the 'magic' sequence is to getting the thing started. When I do manage to get it going it is not without much cranking, frustration and raised blood pressure.

I have a can of starting fluid that says it's safe for diesel engines but it also warns that it may harm some diesel engines with glow plugs.

I have 2 questions that I need help with:

1 - What do I need to have checked/fixed to ensure that this truck will start reliably?
2 - Is starter fluid safe to use in this engine?

Any advice/help is appreciated.

 

Sounds like glow plugs need to be addressed first. There are hundreds of threads on glow plugs. Yours may be the early style system. Just search glow plugs or scroll thru the pages and read some glow plug issues they are all similar. That will give you a good handle of what to check first, then if you find or have a problem and we now which system you have we can steer you in the right direction. I don't think anyone recommends ether but we all use it in an emergency, just don't spray too much in at one time. I have an 84 6.9 that will start at 5 below without ether, so I'm sure once you get this problem solved you will be able to start it with out any tricks.

 

it does sound like the glow plugs need attention. You can verify this by using the block heater (110 volt heating unit mounted in the block) 2 hours before trying to start the engine. The block heater should be heard heating the coolant over by the passenger front tire ... a hissing sound at first plugin. The glow plugs may be bad or maybe the controller is bad. It only takes 1 or 2 glow plugs to make the engine have a hissy fit, but best to replace all of them to keep the system balanced. Use motorcraft/beru plugs. hope this helps.

 

Init,
you have an old style glow plug system on your 86, it was the last year for it.

Check the glow plugs first using an automotive test light.
Clip the ground clip to a positive battery terminal.
Remove each connector from the glow plugs and touch the test light to the terminal on the glow plug.
If the light lights, the glow plug is OK.
If it does not light, replace the glow plug with a Motorcraft/Beru ZD 1A glow plug ONLY. Autozone has them for 9.99 each.

To use starting fluid you must disable the glow plug system.
Behind the passenger side battery down on the inner fender there is a relay with 4 terminals. Black wire, purple wire, red large wire, and two large orange wires. Unplug the purple wire to disable the glow plugs.

 

Many thanks for the advice.

I'll check the glow plugs as described or maybe just replace them outright. I probably should have added in my original post that it starts fine once it has been running for a bit. That would seem to add credence to the glow plug solution wouldn't it?

Also, the guy I got this truck from mentioned that the switch to activate the glow plugs was defective so he installed a push-button switch (I guess the cost of replacing the actual switch was too much for him). I gather that the correct switch is somehow tied to the ignition switch so that it activates when the ignition is turned on. Is it a mechanical connection or electrical?

He said all I needed to do was to hold the switch he installed closed for 20-30 seconds and then start the engine. Could this 'make-shift' work-around of the defective glow plug switch be adding to/causing my problem?

Where does the glow plug switch mount, on the steering column and is it a big deal to replace it?

My apologies for these basic questions but I do not have a manual for this truck and I'm not certain that I will keep it since it seems to have a serious lack of power. It struggles to even haul it's own butt up any sort of hill. Hooking a trailer to it, even if it is only a trailer with a couple of wave runners on it, and then going up a hill makes it even worse. I am really disappointed for some reason. I guess I figured this truck would have more power and be able to pull more than a VW micro-bus.

Last summer I tried to haul a pair a wave runners over Galena Summit in the Sawtooth's.....getting passed by RVs pulling trailers was, to say the least, a sad commentary on this truck's capabilities.... :-(

Is this just the nature of this '86 F250 beast, or is there somehting else really wrong here? I think I understand that airflow is an important aspect of a diesel engines performance. The aircleaner is new and last year my wife took it to an exhaust shop and told them we wanted the best exhaust system installed. Not sure what they put on it but I believe they said it was a 3" system. It seems to run fine, once I get it started, it just has no power.

Right now my thoughts run from getting rid of it and getting a gas powered truck to paying someone to put a turbo in it, if that would help.

Any advice re the feasability/value of putting a turbo on this engine will be appreciated as well.

Thanks!

Init

 

OK the glow plug system on the 86 and earlier engines is complex to say the least.
The controller does recieve power from the ignition circuit to start it working.
The controller is located in the rear of the passenger side head, it goes into the coolant jacket.
The problem is there are many horror stories about it breaking off when you try to remove it. This means pulling the head to get it out and stopping the coolant from running out the broken controller.
This is why many of the old style systems were converted to manual glow plugs.

30 seconds is to long for the glow plugs to be on.
I have a manual switch on mine. Push the button for 10 seconds and it fires right up.
When it is below 0, I may hold them on for 12 seconds.
As the temperature increases, my glow plug time decreases, we are at 40 to 50 in the mornings now, 6 seconds is all I need to get it to fire right up.
If it has been running in the last two or three hours, glow plugs are not needed.
My guess is you have many toasted glow plugs.
Test them and replace as required, it will start much better.

I am trying to place the Sawtooth range, are you in the North West area?
I keep thinking Sawtooth and Bitterroot are in the Montana, Idaho and Washinton state northern tier area. I was through there many years ago when I drove long haul. I do seem to remember high elevations and long grades. The naturally aspirated diesel and high elevations are not good friends. Not near enough air for it to perform well and the truck probably has a high altitude IP on it which drops the HP to about 150. You were probably still leaving a good black smoke trail behind you.
A turbo would definitely be a major improvement to your towing and driving power at high altitude.

I am only at about 2000 feet altitude, when mine was naturally aspirated I towed in the 20,000 pound range regularly. Granted I was not fast, but I always got where I was going. Now with a turbo and a few other small mods, I do a lot of passing other trucks that cost a lot more when they are towing comprable loads.

I am running an ATS turbo with 3" downpipe and no muffler to dual 3" stacks for an exhaust.

Click my name and then view gallery to see pictures my truck and what I do with it as well as some of the modifications I have done to it.

 

Galena Summit is in Idaho not far from Sun Valley. The elevation at the summit is just about 8800'

The elevation where I live is around 4800' and I seldom, if ever drive the truck at lower elevations. I have no idea if the IP (I don't even know what the IP is for sure I would guess Ignition Processor or something of the kind) is a high elevation or not. How do I find out?

And, yes, it leaves a very thick black smoke trail. In fact, I've been thinking about selling it to the US Army for use as a smoke screen generator......

So, it sounds like I should just leave the manual switch in place since I have no desire to tear into the upper end just to replace the original glow plug switch/controller and with my luck the old one would break off for sure.

Based on what you have said regarding the amount of time you hold your gp switch I have almost certainly fried my plugs. I think the best bet at this point would be to just get a new set and be done with it. Do glow plugs have a tendency to break off when being removed too?

Re the turbo installation. Approximately, and I know it is difficult to say, how much should I plan on spending to have a turbo system installed and is ATS the one you recommend? If it's more than $2-3,000 would I be better off to get rid of this truck and find something else or, if I spend the $$ to put a turbo in this one will it be worth it?

The truck is in good shape overall with no rust to speak of, the interior is in good shape, 4-speed manual transmission, 4 wheel drive (the drive train seems to be in good shape) and it only seems to have a small amount of oil leakage, at least judging from the spots it leaves.

What are some of the pit-falls to watch out for and specifics that I should be sure to pay attention to when it comes to picking a shop to do the job?

Thanks again.

Init

 

IP is injection pump.

As far as glow plugs breaking off, it can be a problem.
Some of the off brands tend to swell when they burn out.
Anything but Motorcraft/Beru glow plugs are off brands in my book.
Use a little care and a lot of PB Blaster sprayed aroud the glow plug to work any carbon buildup off of it as you try to remove them.

powerstroke6ltr lives in Denver and has a 92 with a 6.9 that he turboed, you could send him a private message and ask his opinion since you are both at the same relative elevation. He drove the truck before and after the turbo was installed.

The turbo kit will be a bit over 2000 for the parts, installation probably 6 hundered or so.

I my self like the mechanical IDI engine, I spent 7000 dollars on a reman turbo 7.3 engine to replace the original in my truck, to bad it was so badly assembled that I blew three of them up in 28,000 miles. So I went back to a 6.9 and installed a turbo on it. The Power Strokes have to much computer crap on them for me, even though I could have bought one for the price of the engine and other upgrades I did that year.

Sounds like you have an exact copy of my truck.
How many miles are on it? I know that may be hard to say because it only shows 99,999 before it turns over to all 0's again.
Mine has the 3.55 gears in the rears, the only thing that is not great about it is trhe fuel mileage if you drive the interstate speeds, locally that is 75 to 80 MPH.

As far as shops, well several local shops call me when they have problems with the old diesels. To simple for them to work on I guess, no computer to plug into and have it tell you which expensive part needs replaced.
Spectramac is another user that lives in the Seattle area, I have not seen him on much lately, I have his email I will try to get in touch with him and see if he knows anyone in your area.

 

I just looked you up on Google.
I went through Mountain Home, Fairfield, Carey, Craters of the Moon, Arco, and Atomic City back about the time Mt. St Hellen's blew her top.
I liked that area of the country.
Made a pickup in Boise and Idaho Falls that day.

 

Sorry about that. I just had glanced over the first post and thought you were mainly talking about glow plug starting issues. I would have offered my advice, but my gp's don't work either, so I couldn't help there. As for the turbo, if you would like a general ball park I can find an estimate for mine. I didn't install it myself, as I was a bit busy in January when I wanted it put in. Mine is the 'updated' Aurora 2000 ATS wastegated turbocharger system, with an ATS muffler and 3" exhaust that dumps pre passenger rear tire. Going over the mountains here in Colorado were the last thing I wanted to do without a turbo. One reason was that I was a bit uneasy about the amount of smoke being emitted. It was ridiculous. In fact I failed my emissions test until I got the turbo. Mountains on slight grades I could hit 45 in 2wd and in snowy sections, 40 in 4wd. I was a bit disappointed also. One of the local grades I drive every day, can't remember the %, slowed me to 30mph and it's a country 2 laner. THAT is pretty bad when it's double yellow and nobody can pass.

-Post turbo makes me wish they put a turbo on from the factory. It's that much better. Although I have had some intital problems, they aren't HUGE problems. Most of the problems had NOTHING to do with the turbo, but rather work I had requested ATS do. The only turbo problem I have had is oil leaking near the feed. To this day, I am still trying to get into contact with ATS about the darn thing. Anyways, back on subject. On the same grades, I can cruise at about 55 or so. If I have the fuel pedal pinned in 4th (I have the 5 speed, not 4) , I can hit 60-65 which is pretty good. I can pass people! Well, if they don't speed up. Passing on a grade means you need quite a bit of room, as in passing gear it still doesn't pick up speed amazingly fast. Smoke is not an issue anymore. I pased emissions with 36% opacity I think it was. Limit was 40%. to put that in more copmarable terms, before turbo I was hitting about 67% opacity. I was putting down somewhere around 75 hp to the rear wheels pre turbo, and post turbo is about 116. definately the 50% increase in power advertised.

-I am still to this day, glad I bought the turbo. Keep in mind, there are several turbos out there. Banks makes the sidewinder, Theres also ATS, and Hypermax. As to which is better? Well, that all comes down to which company you prefer, as they do pretty much the same thing. The turbo will bring back quite a bit of money even still if you take it off and sell the truck down the road. Hope this helps!! Good luck! P.S. In addition to the powerstroke coming with more electronics and computers the glowplugs are also under the valve covers, whereas the IDI plugs are very easily serviced. Parts for any newer diesel will be MUCH more than an IDI.

 

If I was you I would leave the manual system for the Glow Plugs in place. You should only leave the on for 10 seconds or you will be replacing them. I went to the manual switch because mine were burning out steady even after replacing the controller and solenoid. The manual system works great and no more burn't plugs.

 

Init, I have just recently installed a manual "push button" switch" on my 84, it took my me all of 25 minutes to install. Works great...lots of info on glow plugs, do a search. Listen to any advice Dave has to give, he is the IDI geru. lol

 

Many thanks to all who have offered advice/suggestions.

I will be replacing the glow-plugs at the earliest opportunity.

Trouble is I travel every week and have very limited time at home to dive into replacing the glow-plugs in my truck. I will have 2 full days at home soon and will make an attempt to change them.

I really appreciate all the tips.

Init

 

Here is a small trick i read about years ago to get my 85 F350 to turn over.You will need two people.Have one person loosen a injector while the other cranks, when fuel starts to come out tightin it back up.Keep doing that to each injector untill it turns over.Leave all the caps and fuel lines on the injectors.no need to take them off .When i got to the fourth injector it started up then stalled.If the glow plugs are bad you should still be able to turn the motor over.Dont use starter fluid,use the cap to fill it with diesel fuel and use that.Check all fuel lines for leaks and any kinks.Electric fuel pump might be another option for you.It will help build up fuel pressure in the system.