My 92 3.0 shorty requires an A/C recharge, the system is R-12 which is no longer available. What are my options here?

 

I converted both of mine to 134 with a cheapie 35 buck conversion kit from Autozone. I didn't flush the system or anything. Got rid of the R12 and added the conditioner charge, which is supposed to do something to the O rings, etc. and filled with 134. My 1990 van ran for almost 75k miles without any AC problems after the conversion. My 91 now has 15k on the conversion. Now on the 91 I am now using EnviroSafe Refrigerant. It is a direct replacement for 134. I drained the 134 and replaced it with ES. Uses one third the amount of 134 and better cooling.

http://www.es-refrigerants.com/produ...ils.asp?id=172

 

Aerocook:

Freeze-12 Made to work in R-12 systems. No need to clean & flush. Just add.
Use it in all my cars. Colder than 134.

JaY

 

I read about Freeze 12 in another post. Does it have some sort of sealer in it that will cure a very slow leak?
Where do they sell it? I live in Ontario and have not seen it on the shelf of any auto parts store.

 

Aerocook:

Most Auto parts stores should have it. If not check the Truck Stops. The Truckers like using it.
If you don't have a Truck shop close you can get it from E-Bay.

Freeze-12 also sells a can of sealer.

JaY

 

Aerocook:

This is what your looking for (E-Bay item # 8053823290)

JaY

 

At some car shows they go around selling mexican R-12, propane based, just hope you do not have a leak and smoke...

 

If you wanted, I could get you some Freezone, better then Freeze 12, it is almos the same thing, except the Freezone is the original formula with the pattent, and it carries its own patented lubricant. It will carry the existing lubricants as well. The old R-12 really should be professionaly removed, and recovered. The system does not need to be flushed, but it is not good to mix lubricants. Finding a shop willing to just evacuate your system may be difficult, since just about every shop will want to retrofit your system to R-134a. Don't change to R-134a, it does increase the system stress, higher pressures, and it is not as simple as they say. Freezone uses lower pressures than R-12 and works even better. Freeze 12 does not carry mineral oil very well, and requires extra pressure to make it work. Unless you add PAG oil, which now requires that you change the accumulator to prevent the formation of hydrochloric acid. I really do recommend Freezone above any other, and I have tried several other alternatives. I have seen all the spec sheets, the contents, the installer requirement, etc. Freezone is just easier to use, and requires less retrofitting, So long as the system has not been breached, no change of seals, hoses, compressors, or other components is required. Just remove the old R-12 in a legal manner, and refill.

By the way, avoid AC selaers, they cause damage to the evacuation equipment, and the machines used to recover and purify the recoved refrigerant. They have been estimated to have cost people tens of millions of dollars in accumulated damages to system components. No AC sealer has been approved by the EPA.

 

With Freeze-12 NO Need to Evacuate the old R-12.
I believe that he has a leak so there might not be any R-12 left in the system.
But he will still need to Vaccum out the system before he puts in the Freeze-12.

Aerocook:
With a empty system I'd replace the O-rings to the new type and the Filter thing(Can't remember at the moment what it is called)

JaY

 

Dude, that is bull crap, Feeze 12 and Freezone will mix with R-12, but do your homework, you cannot legally mix them, and it costs the industry a lot of money. Sooner or later, your system will need to be evacuated, most likely when it is old and rotting in a yard. The refrigerant will need to be removed. Now, imagine what happens when they evacuate what they believe to be R-12 with their equipment meant to handle R-12. The result is their equipment becomes contaiminated, and according the the EPA, must be removed from service, or used exclusively for handleing other contaminated refrigerants.
You must always remove the old R-12 if changeing to a new refrigerant. Also, the above comment about R-12 no longer being available is not true either. It is expensive, but is not available to those without licenses, I can buy R-12, but have no desire to do so. I don't need it. If your system still has some charge, retrofitting becomes a breeze, so long as you can have the system evacuated. If you have lost all charge, the system must now be considered breached, and should have the accumulator replaced as a minimum preparation. Flushing is not required, but should be done if the compressor has failed.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/608/technicians/certoutl.html

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/macssubs.html

So you can see that no refrigerant is a direct replacement, not even R-134a. However, of all the refrigerants that have been approved for use in automotive AC systems by the EPA, includeing R-134a, only one does not require the replacement of existing system components, addition of new lubricant, or replacement of seals and hoses. That product is Freezone. Freeze 12 is a freezone clone, but does not contain its own lubricant, nor does it adequately carry mineral oil. The solution is, use a higher pressure, to facilitate better carrying, or to add PAG or POE oil, which requires that the accumulator or filter drier is compatible with R-134a. The patented synthetic lubricant ffound in freezone is contained in the lubricant itself, mixes with both mineral and PAG oils, is compatible with all seals and hoses, is compatible with all desicants, and uses lower pressures that even R-12, which results in less stress on the hoses, seals, and compressor. Freezone even has a one year warranty that covers the entire system, includeing the compressor. See if your retrofit kit has a similar claim.

I am not trying to use this to sell any paticular product through the use of this forum, but if you do your homework, and look into the pros and cons of every approved refrigerant out there, you will see that what I am telling you is 100% correct.

 

Still has a slight charge, the system cycles very quickly and frequently, but it does at least cycle. I have a potential line on a shop that still has a bit of R-12 but I have not confirmed that yet.

 

Last time I had any dealings with R12 (about 4 or 5 years ago) it was already selling at about 60 bucks a pound. I can imagine what it is now........I would definitely convert......just my $.02 worth.....

 

I recently sold a case of R12 on ebay for $1200, $100 per can, still have several more cases for my own use, glad I bought it years ago for something like .89 cents per can

 

If I got an AC shop to evacuate the system how many cans would it take to refill the system?

Doug

 

I just recharged my A/C ('94 3.0) yesterday. I used the "Rechill Kit" from the 'Zone, R-134a. Came with gauge, and two cans. Once I located my low pressure port (On mine, it's on the accumulator, front, passenger side), I had to remove the module/heatsink on passenger side to access the low pressure port, it came off easily, only one bolt. Took all of 10 minutes, used both cans, super cold air now. My first time to mess with A/C, not too bad.
Now I gotta convert my '91 VW Vanagon to 134a so I can recharge it myself in the future.

Taking the Aero a couple of hours north this weekend, gonna float the Spring River w/nephew. Spring River is fed by Mammoth Spring which pumps out 10 million gallons an hour. Water is 58 degrees year round, that'll keep ya cool...lots of fun!

M