Yes, I am ready to drive my 1986 F-250 6.9 diesel 4x4 truck with a new Motorcraft rebuilt engine off a cliff.

For the past several months I have been having one problem after another. I was going to do the engine swap myself with my brother until my back went out a day before we were going to do the job. I decided that I would have a truck repair place do the work.

After waiting for several weeks, and after replacing the clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, rebuilt transfer case, u-joints, and yoke, I was on the road with the old engine in the back of the truck going mighty slow and easy back home. I removed the engine and it sat for about 2.5 months in my basement even though I made repeated calls that it was ready for pick-up. Not really a problem. Only a slight inconvienience.

Immediatly I was having power and smoking problems. The smoke was grey and black. The idle was set at 1100rpm. and the idle advance was not working. I called the installer and they told me that it was not their problem and to take it to Ford. I called Motorcraft and they told me to take it to any Ford dealer and they would fix it.

The first place I took it to calls me back, after I just made the long bus ride back home, to tell me that they would have NOTHING to do with it. They also wanted me to sign a diagnostic authorization and pay $350.00 if they looked at it.

As I am driving, making a moving left turn, the engine dies and I am without steering and brakes, in the middle of a crowded and small intersection, about to go down a steep hill. I made the turn with much effort and proceeded down the hill starting the engine only to have it die immediatly when I took my foot off the accelerator. I coasted keeping the engine running with one foot and looking for a place to stop and take a look. As I am trying to keep the engine running, all of a sudden it starts to rev up! Now its doing 1500 rpm and there is no way to get it to slow down. I finally get down the hill and am able to get to a safe place to take a look. The idle adjustment screw is out and jammed into the IP body. I remove the screw and oddly the idle is 650 rpm. Nice! I start to drive and then the throttle is stuck and I cannot get over 1000 rpm. I am pissed. Over $10,000.00 invested and I am going through this crap!. I force the throttle and it comes loose and drives again. Off to another dealer to get the smoking and power problem fixed.

By now it is time to change the 500 mile breakin oil and when I get under and start to drain the oil I notice that it sure is taking a long time to see a decrease in the flow rate. As a matter of fact the oil is nearing the top of the drain pan and doesn't look to be stopping. Oh Man! There it goes all over the floor of the garage. A couple of towels later and it is under control. Must have been 15 quarts in there. (sarcastic) Great. New filter, 10 quarts and I check the dip stick and it reads "0". I look at the dip stick and notice that it has been tampered with and looks short. I still have the old engine and compare the two sticks. The new engine stick has lost several inches and when I put the old dipstick into the new engine it reads perfect.

I tried another dealer and they said that I would have to sign another diagnostic authorization for $150.00 and they were unsure that Ford covered the work that might need to be done. I signed the work authorization with full confidence that Motorcraft had given me that they would cover engine parts and labor to fix it.

I left the truck for several days and got the call to come and pick it up. I did and noticed that it still smoked and had little power. No difference. I am not happy. The work order said that the tech had found that someone had taken out the screw and that the IP was out of adjustment. He adjusted it to 3 degrees and said there was no smoke at idle.( 3 degrees is that right?) He also says that he replaced the dipstick with the one I provided. LOL That was the one for showing that the wrong one was put in. Thankfully they still had the old one and I am keeping the new one, just in case.

I bring it back in,and, after a week they inform me that the IP needed to be replaced. I get the truck back and it seems to have more power and the smoke is not so bad, I thought.

That next morning I try to start the engine and, it will not start. I try again and see a ton of white smoke and suddenly it starts. Enough smoke to block out the morning sun, but, running. I figure the glow plugs are bad and go to Ford and get a set so I don't have to wait another week without my work truck. I need my truck daily. I install the new GP's after a battle with getting them out. I am not sure, but, a tip might still be in there. I had to use a vise grip, corrosion guard, and a small crow bar to get four of the eight out. Something just blew these GP's out. I wonder if the key was left on over night or something in the Ford shop. I always take my keys with me, so I know that it wasn't me. I also found two leaking injector return lines and fixed them with two new injectors that I had. No more leaks.

I also found a blown fuseable link that I replaced and checked out with no sign of why it blew.

When I took off the injector line keepers to change the injectors, I notice that the injector lines under the rubber gasket were very rusty. I was very carefull not to disturb one in particular. I called Motorcraft and they said that the lines were covered and to take it in to be checked out and that my purchase of the GP's was also covered. Back to the dealer after all.

I call and make another appointment and leave the truck there. As my wife and I are driving away she says that she can't believe that after all I have been through that the truck smokes more than ever. Even more than the engine I took out. I call the dealer and tell them that it is still smoking and to please check it again. Two days later they call to tell me that I had an electrical fire and that I would have to come down and look at the damage. The damage was not that bad. It was the fusable link again, but,this time the link took another wire with it and caused a chain reaction. I towed the truck home and got to work.

I traced the system out and found that the electronic trailer brake controller was being shorted out from the back of the truck and causing the controller to activate constantly. This caused the fusable link to blow and short out the other wires. I replaced all bad wires and took out the entire camper and electronic braking system. The short also caused a major output from the 100amp. alternator and melted the output connector. I then went through every connector in the truck and cleaned out all and any corrosion and dirt and sprayed them with corrossion guard. All wires were wire tied and loomed. No problems now and truck is running again. I also changed the ignition switch that was not installed correctly in the first place. Back to the dealer ASAP.

I have to say that the dealer I am working with now has been very helpful and I am not feeling like such a PITA, as much. Hell, I am just trying to get the thing fixed. Sorry for going on. Just had to vent a little.

Wishing the best of the day to all. -Ed.

 

This part is bad news, if the tips are in there still then the heads may need to be removed to get the tips out. Never force the GPs if they are swelled/stuck stop and ask for help.

Visit........ http://www.members.shaw.ca/k2pilot/ and check out the GP info. Plus only use Morocraft/Beru GPs from Azone only $10 ea.

 

PLC7.3 Thank you for the reply.

Actually I got all the GP's out and found only 7 that were swollen but intact. I am saying that until I can find the other GP I cannot be sure that it was intact. I had some rough running at first, but, that may be because I also changed two injectors and there may have been some air in the lines that had to purge. Believe me, I would not leave 4 GP tips in the engine.

As far as using Motorcraft/Beru GP's, that is exactly what I used to replace the ones I took out. The ones in the engine were put in by the installer and they were made by Lucas. I was not happy about that, since I specifically said to use Motorcraft.

I also had them install a new glow plug controller. I checked that when I saw the Lucas plugs and found it to be an International. That is OK since it is their engine.

Anyway, that is the way it is now. Smoking, not a whole lot of power, and rusty injection lines.

I will remedy all of this one way or another. I must be crazy, but, I like these particular year class of trucks.

I have to admit, though, a guy pulled up next to me at the wholesale yard with a new 6.0 Ford and it sounded REALLY sweet. Oh Well. LOL

As always, the Best to all. -ED

 

Wow, I thought I had problems! They should make this post a manitory read, its a wonder you still want to own a Ford. Hope things are looking up.

 

Ok I did some investigating yesterday and your smoke problem may be the muffler is full of excess oil still, this is known to happen and may take a few days or week to burn off so don't panick yet.

 

Hello again PLC7.3. Talking about burning off, I am wondering about the engine tempurature. It seems to me that I am running cold. I have not checked with the proper equiptment , yet, but I notice there is little heat out of the heater in the cab. Very unofficial I know, but, there used to be a lot more heat with the previous engine and another identical truck that I owned. I checked the temp. by touching the rediator when I came home from a 1 hour drive and had no trouble putting my hand on any portion of the top resevoir. I am wondering if the thermostat is the wrong one or if there even is one installed.

I recently nstalled an K@N air filter to make sure I had proper air flow. Upon doing so I noticed that there were several small black pieces of something in the intake manifold. I am assuming that they did install a new CDV when they rebuilt the engine, but, maybe not. I will pull it and check it when I get a chance. I will also check the thermostat or just put in a new one.

I should mention also that the gauge in the truck reads just above the first of the normal line. Also going up a steep hill with a medium load , the temp gauge barely moves warmer, if at all.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out PLC7.3.

Once again, the best of the day to you. -ED

 

i think you should go out and buy a cheap chevy truck.
then install the cheapest remote control devices you can find.
and remote control drive it through the shop that did the install for you.
preferably through a side of the building that does not have a door.
at a speed of 60 mph or greater.

 

Hello Tom, My brother and I had a good laugh at your reply. Thanks. With all I have had to deal with it was refreshing.

Well, last night I installed a new thermostat and tonight I installed a new throttle cable and CDV. Today when I got to the job site, I checked the temp of the radiator and I could not put my hands on the top of the radiator for very long at all. The temp was definatly up, although the gauge read only slightly above the previous readings.

Interestingly, last night, when I was draining the coolant from the radiator, I noticed that the stream from the petcock was slight. So I get up and take off the radiator cap and notice that there is no visible coolant. As a matter of fact draining the whole system yielded only about a half of a 5 gallon bucket. NOW what!

I also noted that when I removed the thermostat, there was rust in the water jacket. The drained coolant was brownish and had little antifreeze in it. Oddly, the color of the antifreeze was green. I say this because I left 5 gallons of Gold for the engine installers to use. It was the Zerex go5. Does this stuff turn green after awhile?

Tomarrow, or later today, I will try out my new throttle cable that was so badly brocken at the injector connection that it would bind and would not work with the cruise control. I be cruzin' again. LOL

I changed the CDV for the heck of it since I saw some small black pieces in the intake manifold. My brother has never cleaned his so I will just give him the one I took out. It is only about 2 mos. old.

Being as curious as I am, I found that the new IP recently put in under warranty has a "c" clip missing from the pivot pin on the right side of the pump. Should have no problem getting one.

I have a question. Tonight, while draining the radiator to put in the antifreeze and conditioner, I was surprised to find the water coming out of the bottom of the radiator was cold. I mean it was in the low 60 deg. range. Is this normal? I was expecting it would be like 100 deg., or so. The top of the radiator was 126 deg., according to my infered meter. The engine heads were 167 deg. Isn't this a bit cold for water going back into the engine or is this indicitive of very low water flow since the engine was not under load? This was done as soon as I arrived home from work and driving about 30 miles.

I think I will add a temp.gauge that reads in degrees.

What do you guys think?

I would like to thank everyone on this site for the free flow of information and help that you offer. And for putting up with my wynning. LOL

AS always, the best to all. -ED

 

Your stock temp gauge is famous for being incredibly inaccurate. You'll see this for yourself once you install the gauge. Even cheap gauges will be a major improvement. I've noticed that there is no relation between the reading on the dash temp gauge and the reading on my aftermarket gauge set. Pretty funny sometimes - my aftermarket guage shows engine temp increasing, and the dash gauge actually DROPS! The money you spend on gauges will be money well spent.

Keep in mind that the radiator on your truck is very efficient. On a hot summer day, my upper tank will be too hot to touch. Yet I can crawl under the truck and easily hang onto the lower tank. It'll be maybe lukewarm. Pretty impressive.

When I rebuild and engine, one of the first basic steps is to 'hot tank' the block. This completely removes rust, scale and grease, and ensures that I start with a block that is as clean and contaminant-free as possible. It's not unusual to see mild surface rust form on the inside of the cooling jacket, since the cast iron is now clean and has no surface protection. You should NOT be seeing heavy scale or rust that you can pick off with your fingernail or a screwdriver.

The antifreeze that you brought was a good choice. Mixed 50/50 with distilled water, that would give you enough to fill the cooling system and the overflow tank. (That sucker holds a LOT!) The fact that you found green-tinted coolant shows that your stuff wasn't used. It also shows that the engine was sent out without a complete fill. A test drive and fluid recheck would have brought this to the tech's attention.

Sounds like a visit to the rebuild shop would be a good idea. You can voice your concerns, which gets them on record, in case there are future problems. Wouldn't hurt to write everything down and hand a copy of your concerns to the manager. You keep a copy and note on your copy who you talked to and the date/time. Just in case. And be sure to get your five gallons of diesel coolant back!

 

no problem ed.
since i can't do anything except sit here at the computer bored out of my mind for a while longer, i figure i might as well try to brighten up other peoples days.

i agree with Dave Barbieri. write down everything you have found so far so you have it all documented before you go back to the shop that did the install, and have them sign the list so they can not play dumb after you leave if you need to take matters one step farther with them.

i am not sure on the timing issue, you will have to check with our moderator and 6.9 master guru Dave Sponaugle, but i believe that the proper timing is 7.5º

 

Dynamic timing with 20 degree offset at 2000 RPM.
8.5 degrees BTDC will wake the engine up nicely.

Stock settings are like 2.5 to 4.5 ATDC depending on the fuel cetane you are running.

The better the fuel cetane is, the more advanced the timing is.
The higher the altitude the truck is operated at the slower the timing is set.

Wonder if he is talking 3 before or after top dead center?

 

Hello to all. Well, the new throttle cable works great. I have a lot more throttle and the cruise control is working perfect.

I bought some guages, but the temp seems kind of high and the ampmeter seems to low of a range. Oil is 0-90, ampmeter 0-60, and the temp. is 0-280deg. Any suggestions for hooking up gauges. Brand, type and location? I will check the archives.

Today when I was going up the hill to work I looked into the right side rear view mirror to see how bad it was smoking and noticed that there was very slight black smoke overall, but, there was a pronounced puff of black smoke at quick regular intervals. I am thinking there is one cylinder that is not firing properly. I also have been noticing there is what sounds like a noisy tappet.

Well, I picked up the compression tester I ordered from Napa and this is what I found.

#1-375 psi.,
#3-280 psi.
#5-375 psi.
#7-375 psi.
#2-360 psi.
#4-365 psi.
#6-340 psi
#8-360 psi

#3 glow plug is the one I was not sure that I got the whole plug out of. I found the plug under my shelves and it is missing the tip. About 1/4 inch of it. I guess that it bent the exaust valve on its way out. That is probably where the noisy lifter noise is coming from too. Now what?

I can't expect Ford to do anything for my error in replacing my own glow plugs. But, the truck didn't have any problem with the glow plugs until the next morning that it came from the Ford shop. I am pissed that the installer did not use Motorcraft glow plugs like I asked. Instead he used Lucas. Would using Motorcraft have prevented the tips from swelling and breaking off in #3 in spite of whatever caused the entire set of glow plugs to fail? I don't know. There are a lot of faults here with all involved and I don't know what to do.

My gut tells me to do what I always do, and that is, to " do it myself ". I don't know how much I have to keep spending on this truck to "get it right", but, I am loosing too much time without my truck for work. Ugg.

I should have listened to my wife and bought a new truck. LOL Oh Well! I guess I just have to keep moving in a forward direction.

What do you folks think?

The best to all. -ED

 

i would definatly go after the shop that put the engine in now. they did not do what you asked for and payed for, and did not use the parts you payed for and supplied them, rather stole your parts and put in inferior parts that failed, leaving you with a new, broken engine. did they even put the new engine in it, or did they clean up a junkyarder and put that in???
you have one cylinder that has significantly lower compression for a new engine, #3 with 280lbs, and #6 with 340 is kind of low also.
if they do not do anything for you, let them know that you are going to go to the better business bureau with your list of defects and missing/switched parts and fluids and register a complaint against the shop, and then follow up with the threat. at least they may not do it to someone else, and if they have done it a few times before, your complaint may just get them shut down.

 

I would take it 1 step further, small claims court. I dont know about the Better Business Bureau down there but if its any thing like it is in Canada, they register complaints but cant shut any one down, besides you want your engine fixed first, then shut them down!

 

Both Tom and BCFord bring up some good points, Ed. In the very best light, there's been a real communication breakdown between the service writer and the tech actually doing the work. The parts that you provided - the parts actually specified by Ford as OEM - were not used as you requested. Secondly, your compression figures are not within spec. Yes, your engine is new, and your rings aren't fully seated, but your lowest reading is outside of the 25% highest-to-lowest spec that Ford uses. True, it's not out by much (2psi), but a new engine, carefully assembled, shouldn't be borderline to begin with.

As BC sez, the goal here is to get your motor fixed. So, call the dealership and speak with the general manager. NOT the service manager or some other department head. You need to speak directly with the top guy. After all, you've already seen how well things get communicated there. So, no layers of bureaucracy - straight to the top. First, explain why you brought your engine there to begin with - reputation, appearance, etc. Then explain why you're so disappointed in the outcome. Have your facts with you and stick to them. Don't exaggerate and don't get mad. This is a businessman; present the problem honestly and accurately, then provide the solution. He needs to understand clearly what it will take to make you feel the job has been done correctly. This will be your most cost- and time-effective solution, so try it first. If this doesn't work, you can always go to the newspaper, the local TV station, the BBB and court. But before you use the hand grenades, try a little honey.