Is hind sight a perfect 20/20 all the time???

After a leaking set of collector gaskets, I developed a leak under the hood. I inspected my manifold gasket and sure as sh_t, it was leaking. So, much to my dismay, I pulled the header and prepared to change out the gasket. I did it, and even used that copper RTV stuff and tried the double gasket trick too...and guess what...IT STILL LEAKED!!!

I pulled her back in the garage tonite, and pulled the headers completely off of the truck. I took a close look at where the collector tubes were welded to the flanges...and the welds were protruding almost 1/8" past the flange!!! Now I may not know alot about everything, but I do know that no matter what kind of gasket I bought, I would never get that thing to stay sealed. I cannot believe how shotty of craftsmanship these headers have. After a few minutes with the grinder, they are all smooth and flush. I will re-install them tomorrow.

I just wanted to vent about how poorly these headers were constucted. The "paint" began flaking off about a week after I installed them, and are beginning to rust. I just took care of that though.

Thanks guys for letting me bitch and moan for a second, and if anyone ever asks you who makes headers for these trucks with the 240 or 300 6 cyl., mine is a 240, although totally rebuilt, please tell them to stay away from DynoJUNK!!!

Ken

 

the raised welds are supposed to be like that to promote a gasket surface.

 

I hope the set I have on my 390 aren't so bad. I popped for the Cerama Coat extra. But I did find out that I couldn't use an aftermarket hi torgue starter ( I have Two One is Tilton, One is CVR) after investing much time and money-even doing some machining on Tilton, and I suspected that it was the Headers, (one down tube seemed to have less angle than it could have had) but couldn't bring myself to buy another set of good headers at $400. to find out, just in case that wasn't it then I'd have duplicates of everything and a Grand invested, so I bought a good NAPA stocker and a heat blanket thingie.
But still wish I'd started out with a higher grade so I'd know for sure - and I'm disappointed that I didn't get to use at least one of the better starters. My last headers were even cheaper than Dyno stuff - they were Blacksomething or other and looked pretty bad after 7 years. I know this is an ongoing problem -hopefully someday we can have more options.

 

I'm sure you have seeen my sig. That's not a spelling mistake :-)

 

Well 71cc, if that promotes a gasket surface, I'd love to know how. If you look at anything else that has a gasket on the engine, its all supposed to be flat and true.

Like I said, now my headers are flat and true. I didn't think that those raised surfaces could seal well, especially since I could see where the black paint had wore off of certain parts of the collector and not the whole thing.

Ken

 

There are header manufacturers who purposefully put the raised welds in and then surface grind them so their straight. When this is done it does indeed promote a better gasket seal. Header flanges do tend to bend/warp and cause leaks on their own. Check out this page from the Sanderson header web site:

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/dino.htm

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 26-Nov-02 AT 01:17 PM (EST)]Badboyina67,
Is the flange one piece or individual for each exhaust port? If it's one flange, it helps to cut through the flange between each port. That way if there's any warpage it's easier to draw the flange and head together. My Cleveland headers are like this on my Mach1 and they've never leaked at the head over the last 17 years.

Kevin
1967 Shortbed F100
Roller cam 5.0
F150 5-Speed w/hydraulic clutch
4.11 Detroit Locker

 

I took a close look at
>where the collector tubes were welded to the flanges...and
>the welds were protruding almost 1/8" past the flange!!! Now
>I may not know alot about everything, but I do know that no
>matter what kind of gasket I bought, I would never get that
>thing to stay sealed. I cannot believe how shotty of
>craftsmanship these headers have. After a few minutes with
>the grinder, they are all smooth and flush. I will
>re-install them tomorrow.

Flange is there in purpose, it's there so that the pressure is put on a specific point or bead around the gasket, by grinding the flange off you made it so the pressure is going to have to spread a lot further to get the proper gasket crush I.E. a lot more torque. You did follo wthe directions for how tight to torque them right? not more than 20-35ft/lbs I believe is what my hedmans said


>
>I just wanted to vent about how poorly these headers were
>constucted. The "paint" began flaking off about a week after
>I installed them, and are beginning to rust. I just took
>care of that though.


In the headers I've seen they've always said the paint is only temporary and will burn off with normal use,

 

I don't want to rub it in, but I never realized how lucky I have been with the Hedman Headers on my 67 F100, 2WD, 352 engine. Installed them in 1972. Over 250,000 mile without a leak and not rusted through. I did change the gaskets in 1995 when I rebuilt the engine.

 

Now that's a testimonial! 30 year old cheap Hedman Headers? I can remember the Super Shops pushing them out the door way back then!

Did they fit?

Barry

 

After some careful evaluating...I'm going back to the original manifold...to hell with these HeadACHES!!!

Ken

 

Barry, you're making me feel old.

 

Give this a try, I know it sounds like backwards thinking but this worked for me when nothing else did. I have a '69 Mach I with a 428cj and automatic. If you've ever looked under the hood on one of these you'll see that you have NO room at all to work, the header bolts are less than 1/16 in. from the shock towers when you finally get finished and the headers have to be off the engine to install it.
After reassembly the headers leaked like crazy, I did everything you've done, double gaskets,copper rtv, grinding, all with no results.
A local guy here who owns a speed shop told me to bring him the headers and he would cure all the leaking. What he did was re weld the primary tube to the flange from the outboard side and ground the inner weld completely off smooth. It worked like a charm. It's been over a year now with no leaks. Just a thought.
Greg

 

Well......it's a little too late now that you went and ground off the sealing surface, but if you would've used exhaust manifold gaskets instead of the header gaskets, I'll bet this would've worked. It seems like the header gaskets I've come across for the small block, the openings in the gaskets were about the same size as the outside of the sealing surface of the headers. I found this before I put my headers on and went and bought a set of manifold gaskets and haven't had any trouble at all. Always check your gaskets to make sure they fit properly before putting things together, it's a lot cheaper and saves time and frustration.
Dave