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Old Mar 26, 2006 | 09:12 AM
  #1  
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400 upgrade advice needed

I apologize up front for the length of this.
I am looking for advice, or opinions from those that have done similar things in the past, so want to provide you with as much info as needed to make informed decisions, yada yada yada

The truck in question is a '79 F-100. The 400 is a transplant (code translates to a '72 Galaxie) and was rebuilt (not by me) in stock configuration (possibly .030 over) with approx. 40k miles on it since. The bottom end appears to be in good shape with 161 - 168 psi in all cylinders on the compression test and consistent oil pressure with no leaks or smoke.

The problems are in the top end.
I need a new carb, plain and simple. The truck wasn't being driven, so the good carb was "donated" to a family member who needed it more than me. The replacement is a ca. '67-'68 Motorcraft 2bbl that even after 2 rebuilds won't tune right. And I would prefer a 4bbl.

There is also a problem with the right side head...the one that the alternator bracket bolt screws into...or in my case, where the bolt USED to screw into. Now it's broken off inside the head, and repeated attempts to extract it with the head on the engine have resulted in an extractor bit breaking off in the hole as well!

So the head(s) must come off...may as well have them worked over while off, right? I am also looking at a replacement (Edlebrock or Weiand) manifold/carb set from Summit Racing, and probably headers as well.

The truck has been sitting for about 6 months, and had less than 5,000 miles put on it the year before that. The time has come, however, for it to become a (almost)daily-driver again, or get rid of it to free up storage space.

So now after that essay, we finally get to my question(s) for you................

Given the above scenario, what else would you consider doing/replacing? Are there any pitfalls you see coming my way?

Heads: Obviously I need the bolt removed from the right, and the hole retapped, but what else? I would like to reuse my rockers, if possible. What is considered "mandatory" when having head work done, and what is considered "optional"? Excuse my ignorance, but I have never had to take heads to a machine shop before. I want to keep costs down, and remain in the stock area of performance, but want to do it right.

Carb/Manifold: I'm pretty much sold on the combo including air filter assembly from Summit Racing. From the reading/research/common sense I've applied so far, I gather the 600cfm carb is the correct choice, given the mostly stock configuration. Yes?
Any pro vs. con opinions on the Weiand/Edelbrock/Summit choices?

Headers: This is really only an option if the cheap ones work. My stock manifolds are in good shape, so the headers are more of an afterthought with some performance in mind. ANy thoughts on the Dynomax "blackjack" headers for $180 from Summit?

Thanks again for any words of wisdom you provide.
 
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Old Mar 26, 2006 | 09:42 AM
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Here's what I'd do: 1. the broken bolt in head. If you don't have a welding machine, bring the truck to a welding shop. Take a nut thats the same size as the bolt. put the nut in a box end wrench. Hold it up against the broken bolt, then weld the nut to the bolt, filling the center of the nut in with the welding rod/wire(if its a MIG). Let it cool then unscrew the bolt. It should come right out of the head. The weld will bond with the bolt, not the cast iron of the head. --------------------------------------------2. Intake and carb. If you're dead set on that intake carb combo, go for it. Otherwise a cheaper option is a Holley 500 cfm 2 bbl on the stock intake. You'll get the same performance as the 4 bbl, without the intake swap. Your mileage MIGHT be better with the 4 bbl, but that will depend on how disapplined your right foot is after the 4 bbl swap. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------3. Headers. EbayMotors.com. There's always cheap headers there for Ford pickups.
 
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Old Mar 26, 2006 | 10:08 AM
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after looking at headrs on ebay, I found out that you can pay about 20 dollars more and get new ones from jeg's. I just bought a set of Dynomax headers from jeg's for my 400 for 119.99....part # 289-85051.....imo, I would stay with Edelbrock carb and intake for best results....It's just my opinion, but I dont like Holley.....
 
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Old Mar 28, 2006 | 08:50 PM
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I have a set of the dnymax blackjacks and there r no complaint here. I would suggest a edelbrock if it is going to be a daily driver, but the holleys r easier to tune
 
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Old Mar 28, 2006 | 08:54 PM
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the only problem I have against holley, is every one that I have had, you have to constantly tune them to keep them running....I personally recommend Edelbrock.....
 
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 11:20 AM
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I just rebuilt my 400, with moderate upgrades: 255DEH, flat-tops, etc. I used a Peformer intake with the Edelbrock 1406 carb, and I love it. I also have stock exhaust manifolds on it, with a 2-1/4" dual exhaust. In my opinion, skip the headers for now...I did, and I'm happy with how it runs...granted, I'll never know if headers make any significant improvements unless I actually install them, but I've heard from a number of people that the stock 351M/400 manifolds are pretty good. I think BMC uses stock manifolds on most of his racing engines. Headers can be a PITA.
 
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 11:49 AM
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The timing set on some 400's are retarded(literally, not figuratively). Good for emissions, bad for power and gas mileage. Stock trucks often get 8mpg. Modified trucks(cam, carb, intake) often get 11, even with more power available. Available at summit for $40. Perhaps cheaper at the autoparts store if you figure out the right part number.

I reused my rockers with no trouble. Summit sells a shim kit that you may need if any valve seat work is done. I leave the head decisions to a pro recommended by car guys I trust. So far it's worked for me.

There is nothing mandatory. People run trucks with knocking rods and all sorts of issues. Naturally that's not recommended. If the engine has 40,000 on a decent rebuild, there are no funny noises, and the oil has not been contaminated the bottom end should be fine. Don't touch it and you'll save several hundred dollars.

You can get a edelbrock performer intake for $70 on ebay. You can get a new cam and lifters(maddog like mine for example) for $99 on ebay. Any carb assume it will need a rebuild. Edelbrock carbs do seem to hold a tune better and have fewer daily issues as compared to Holleys. 600cfm is a good number.

Headers put a lot of heat under the hood and may have fit issues. Stock exhaust manifolds are restrictive in upper rpms, but not noticable in the normal driving rpm range. I'd wait for later. A low restiction exhaust system will benefit you more than headers in daily driving.

My modifications are a Edel 600cfm carb, performer intake, maddog cam, non-retarded timing chain, and dual exhaust with flowmasters. I get 11mpg driving the speedlimit or 5 over. I also run a 10.2 ET in the 1/8 mile, even with my 2.75 rear gear. Not lightning quick, but fast enough to give stock rice burners fits.
Have you smoked a Datsun today? (I love the growl when it takes off!)
 

Last edited by derherr65; Mar 30, 2006 at 12:08 PM.
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 12:15 PM
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I'm putting headers on my truck right now....I'm going to put a non retarded timing set, edelbrock carb and intake, 255 deh cam, and dual 2.5 exhust...if you do decide to change to headers, watch the manifold bolts, they like to break ....I have 1 that I gota try to get out now
 
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 12:26 PM
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Antisieze! Use it like you selling it!
 
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by derherr65
Antisieze! Use it like you selling it!
I wished whoever put them in used it ...would make my job alot easier...lol..
 
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 02:57 PM
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Do the headers and the intake. Without it's like a smoker trying to run five miles. He knows he has the legs but he runs out of air too soon. Do the timing chain thing straight up. There's nothing to the myth that Holleys wont hold a tune. When they are set right the first time they are fine. Having said that use the 1406, follow the adjustment procedure they give you with the carb and at most you may need to do some fine tuning with the jets and metering rods, if you don't change the cam you probably won't have to mess with that. While the heads are out smooth the thermactor bump out of the runners if your heads have them and try to do a little short side radius work on the exhaust ports as that is their weakest spot. Beyond that some bowl blending is the other thing that will help them breathe. http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.shtm This site is a decent primer on porting.
 
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 09:07 PM
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I don't get it, you who constantly claim Holley's don't hold a tune. I run them on all my vehicles that have carbs and NONE of them require daily, weekly, monthly, or even yearly adjustment. Even the THREE 2 bbls on my 331 ran perfectly for over a year without ONE adjustment. The few times I've even thought about touching them, I did a little investigation into the rest of the engine's tuning, and EVERYTIME, there's been something else other than the carb that was amiss. The carbs didn't need any adjustment. Y'all are doing something wrong. The only moving parts on a Holley are the throttle shafts and accellerator pump, Once you PROPERLY TUNE a Holley they'll stay that way, there's nothing to wear in daily use that would cause it to fall out of adjustment. Idle mixture screws don't move , once set. Jets don't either. Keep it fed with clean, water free fuel and it'll run as good as new, for years till the throttle shaft bushings wear out.
 
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 09:40 PM
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I'll stress this one more time: if you pick a cam, like, for example, the 255DEH, the operating range is only good up to about 5k rpm. The stock exhaust manifolds will NOT be restrictive unless you run a high lift, high RPM cam...
 
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 10:25 PM
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I'd refrain from running the stock engine above 4500 rpm. The piston speeds start getting up there. Oh, and if you get headers, get the small tube kind, 1 5/8 to 1 3/4" I think. That will help you in the mid rpm range, as opposed to up at 6000 rpm that you'll never hit... or live through hitting... or whatever. The stock exhaust manifolds are fairly large, they just have poor tuning.
 

Last edited by derherr65; Mar 30, 2006 at 10:42 PM.
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Old Mar 30, 2006 | 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by baddad457
I don't get it, you who constantly claim Holley's don't hold a tune. I run them on all my vehicles that have carbs and NONE of them require daily, weekly, monthly, or even yearly adjustment. Even the THREE 2 bbls on my 331 ran perfectly for over a year without ONE adjustment. The few times I've even thought about touching them, I did a little investigation into the rest of the engine's tuning, and EVERYTIME, there's been something else other than the carb that was amiss. The carbs didn't need any adjustment. Y'all are doing something wrong. The only moving parts on a Holley are the throttle shafts and accellerator pump, Once you PROPERLY TUNE a Holley they'll stay that way, there's nothing to wear in daily use that would cause it to fall out of adjustment. Idle mixture screws don't move , once set. Jets don't either. Keep it fed with clean, water free fuel and it'll run as good as new, for years till the throttle shaft bushings wear out.
then you tape a dollar bill to it when you throw it away so you can say that you lost something...then go get a edelbrock
 
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