gutless 460!!!

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  #31  
Old 02-25-2006, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Blown 331
Plug in these numbers.
Bore 4.360
Stroke 3.85
Cyinders 8
Head cc's. I used 76 for DO and 96 for D3
Piston dome -22
Gasket thickness I used .051 and added .022 for the tall deck D1
Just for future reference most of the head gaskets used are actually .041, almost all of the felpro stuff uses that number, and about the only ones that don't are usually specialized gaskets intended to gain or lower comp by a small amount or used for clearence or quench reasons.
Ok lets clarify some things on my position on DOVE heads, first off DOVE heads may or may not have a thermactor hump so there is a restriction but the C8, and C9s don't yet the DOVE heads will bring almost twice as much money on places live ebay. If your going to go with the early heads then don't go looking for DOVEs because some maginzine published thta those were the ones to get everyone looks for them, go look for an earlier set Like C9VE heads flow just as good or better than dove heads with the same combustion chamber for half the price. Next when your building an engine you can setup the comp ratio by piston choice, and piston to deck hieght clearence, so you can run dish pistons, and a set of DOVE heads or flat tops and a set of D3VE heads that cost even less than the D9VE heads, and way less than a set of DOVE heads infact some people will even give you the D3VE heads they took off of thier engine when you sold them the DOVE heads you had laying around for more than they are worth (yes I have done that). The truth of the matter according to Scott J aka the mad porter, and others myself included is the amount of difference in flow between both unported, and equally ported early and late model heads is negligable so compression is your only advantage, and that can be setup when the engine is put together. Now if your dealing with a race gas only engine then by all means run the early heads because you can get them into the 11:1+ range a lot easier without the use of a dome piston but most of the engines that are bieng discussed on here are pump gas engines that the desired comp ratio is easy to optain with proper choice of pistons, and having the block decked to bring the piston up to the top of the deck. (you can mill .080 of these blocks if you have to they will take it unlike a big block chevy block).
Will bolting on a set of DOVE, or earlier heads onto a stock 75 460 increase power? yes it will. So will bolting on a set of headers, or an alum intake, or changing the timing chain, putting on a better ignition system etc, etc. But the gain isn't about flow it's about compression only. I don't have anything against DOVE heads except the hype, which has driven the price way up, and I am trying to save you guys money in your engine builds. 2 engines built to the same specs such as the same compression etc with the same cam, intake carb on and on. but one with DOVE heads, and one with D3VE heads will end up at the same hp but the one with the D3VE heads is going to end up costing 100-500 less because of buying the heads in the first place depending on where you are and how hard the DOVE heads are to come by in your area. And the difference will be even greater if you sell the dove heads to some other guy that thinks they are the answer and getting his D3VE heads for nothing.
Now if you want to spend the money on a set just so you can say your running DOVE heads by all means go right ahead, but I am going to take that extra money and put it into something that will actually gain me more power and beat you in a race while running the D3VE heads. And I don't think it is right to keep telling people to spend that money, when in truth they aren't going to gain anything by it.
I am just trying to save my FTE family members money on thier engine builds, and get them the most bang for the buck but if that type of advice isn't wanted I will just stay out of it, and keep building engines my way cheaper.

Edit to answer Barca's question, no your not going to gain much by switching a duraspark box out for an MSD on a low rpm engine but I wasn't going to say it, I have enough aurguments about the heads as evidenced by the earlier part of this post.
And the spacer I mentioned before was the HVH super sucker.
 

Last edited by monsterbaby; 02-25-2006 at 11:45 AM.
  #32  
Old 02-25-2006, 11:42 AM
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Monster baby- Nice! That should be a sticky. I hate to get off track on this guys original question but what is the difference between a D3 and D9? My dad has a whole D9 truck 460. Actually we have just about every casting from C9 to D9 other than cobra jet and police.
 
  #33  
Old 02-25-2006, 11:44 AM
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there is no such thing as a D9 head, the block is a D9TE, and the difference is that the cyl walls are approx 3/16" longer which work really good for strokers. And the rotating assembly went from internal to external balance in 79 also, but on the D9 blocks they still used the D3VE heads.

oops I see I wrote D9VE heads in the post above that was a typo and I corrected it.
 
  #34  
Old 02-25-2006, 12:34 PM
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If you look at the very first post you will see that the motor has flat top pistons and D3 heads. Very good combo for street comp. You put DOVE heads on it and it will run like crap becuase the comp. will be to high for todays crap gas. Been there done that. Put them on a 76 dish piston motor and yes it will run better because you now have the same comp. as a flat top D3 motor, but the flat top D3 motor will have better quench and run better.

This is the order I would do things in.

1st. Change intake gaskets and or intakes. If you wanna put an aluminum intake on you can sell the CJ. They are bringing $100 pretty easy on e-bay. Then see how it runs.

2nd. Put an ignition box on it. MSD, Accel, ect.

3rd. headers. They are not cheap is why I put them last. they will cost $400+ for new ones.
Very much agree that D3's over flats are a petty good shortblock combo for street duty.

Don't know that I'd throw money at an ignition just yet. The Duraspark should be fine for now. We gotta get everything else up to speed first, and right now the headers are a serious choke point. Once the headers are on and everything else it dialed in, then he can start putting back pennies for an upgraded ignition.

Brad
 
  #35  
Old 02-25-2006, 03:19 PM
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The engine was built by the local machine shop! Seems to me they would have the block deck and head work history on this engine. At least that would be the place to go for this information. As for the RV cam information it is incomplete and tells you nothing. Agan the machine shop would be the source for this important information. With a little more information we would be able to calculate compression ratio (static and dynamic) and immediatly see if there is an opportunity to build power without going into the engine. You need to know where you are before you can determine where you are headed. Or you can "Bench Race". Fun, but a waste of time.
 
  #36  
Old 02-26-2006, 10:39 PM
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I was getting at that 2 pages ago..... Seems no one wants to listen to that though. LOL
 
  #37  
Old 02-26-2006, 11:19 PM
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Look at this page
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/engine3.htmlk at this page...a little port work won't hurt. you need to toss the "RV" cam, you won't get anything but crappy milage and pethetic power...from experience, i know! i went from a "RV" cam to a Crane 270H cam in my 427w and a big difference it made. plus i'm using smaller heads than you! i'd try something @214/218 duration at .050 and a .480 to .520 lift
 

Last edited by termyt00; 02-26-2006 at 11:37 PM.
  #38  
Old 02-26-2006, 11:21 PM
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you have google! type Ford 460, 400hp thats how i got info on my 427W...good luck
 
  #39  
Old 02-27-2006, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by fordsrgrt
sorry to disappoint anyone but heres the flow numbers on stock doves and d3"s at 600 .279/135=dove, 270/129=d3ve, not a whole lot of difference there on stock castings
the dove head's are 75cc the d3's are 96cc now that's a difference.
 
  #40  
Old 02-27-2006, 12:10 AM
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but they use the same valves...and with todays crap gas i'd rather have the bigger chambers so i can run 87 octane...you won't really notice a difference till you get a set of SCJ / CJ big valve heads. with the bigger ports too.
 
  #41  
Old 02-27-2006, 12:22 AM
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dove heads are 2.08/1.66; my World W/SR are 2.02/1.60 and im close to 400 hp on my 427! it took a cam to get me there though! you could definately use the smaller intake designed for your heads.
 
  #42  
Old 02-27-2006, 12:30 AM
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a 400hp 427 is a really mild street engine expecially using windsor sr heads. that must be one really mild cam your running. For example FRPP crate 392 cid engine straight out of the crate is 430hp just the way ford builds it.
 
  #43  
Old 02-27-2006, 12:51 AM
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actually it is right now around 350hp, haven't got the right computer tuned !!! so i'm doing the Desktop Dyno guessing game...but it definately has the potential. i'll be on Spring break soon and then is when i'm converting too mass air. and hopefully the TwEECer will be sitting at my front door...wish me luck!
 
  #44  
Old 02-27-2006, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by monsterbaby
a 400hp 427 is a really mild street engine expecially using windsor sr heads. that must be one really mild cam your running. For example FRPP crate 392 cid engine straight out of the crate is 430hp just the way ford builds it.
the cam in mine is one step below theirs, i would like to know what cam jack roush uses in his 427R
 
  #45  
Old 02-27-2006, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by termyt00
the cam in mine is one step below theirs, i would like to know what cam jack roush uses in his 427R
Yeah that must be a very small cam. I'm running an Anderson Ford B-41 Blower cam in my 331. .548/.565 lift, 228/234 duration. Power range is 2700 to 6700 but works great on the street.
 


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