ggarrahan, you are right. I only will buy American Vehicles. This is not a rant about American cars and trucks. Do you think that the Japanese people buy American cars and trucks like we buy their products, I think not. They support the Japanese manufacturers.
Ed G

 

I'm Japanese and I have a ford truck and a bmw. I guess I am not loyal to my country because I drive foreign cars and choose to pick the best products no matter where they came from.

Most of you guys should go back to school and take economics 101 and re-learn GDP and GNP.

 

Nope don't work for the union nor do I have much faith in them anymore. I've have been on both sides of the fence and know that everybody has their own agenda. If they're doing something that seems to be helping you it's helping them more be it the union or the suits. The worker is usually on his own. Your right about unions being part of the reason American automakers and other manufactures have a hard time competing in the US. As ggarrahan mentioned for every GM car sold 23 americans have jobs. I'm willing to bet that number is much lower for foriegn owned companies who's products are produced here in the states. Why is that you ask? How many foriegn companies have unions? They seem to run much more efficiently without union involvement or in other words get more done with fewer employees. As I mentioned in a before according to Toyota's stockholders report their total global employment is 260,000. Thats pretty low when you think about it although part of that could be due to outsourcing. Here is another tid bit of info for you Toyota plan for the new American heavy truck division calls for developing and building a trully "American truck". They will be designing, engineering, and building the truck here in America. A very large parcentage of the components are to be made and assembled here in the US. This is all part of their marketing stratagy. They're are going to be able to produce a truck here with enough American made components to be called a domestic. How do you like that? Toyota knows that most people assoiciate a vehicles country of origin with the badge that's on the front of the vehicle. This is very true in the truck market. American truck owners are very loyal to American made trucks. Toyota will aggressively market their new trucks as American made and they will be just wait and see. As forthe buy American argument it's starting to remind me of an argument I got in with my buddy Walt a couple of weeks ago. We were heading out to the trails to go biking I pulled my Ranger into a parking space next to a Mazda Pick-up. He made the statement and I quote "the Japs really copied Ford with that truck". I then told him that Ford owned Mazda. He wold not believe it not even after we got back and I pulled it up on the internet and showed him. He still believes Mazda is a Japanees owned company. He would not be swayed by facts, figures, or evidence. I'm going to handle the discusion here how I handled it with Walt I'm going to walk away from it and just shake my head. There is some people you just can't reach.

 

Al Bundy, I am talking about the Country of Japan, not the US.
Ed G

 

Ford owns 1/3 of Mazda. The rest is Japanese

 

You would be amazed at how popular Mustangs and Explorers are over there...
And I am serious too.

 

Add the F-150 to that list. The rich Japanese folk love them. They're status symbols over there.

 

Actually the layoffs are do to over capacity and nothing else. Even if the workers only made half what they do today the layoffs would still occur in a well run company. If you are running a factory in any other than 90%+ you are losing money.

 

[QUOTE=WXboy]"Defining an American company is simple. When you buy the truck, where do the profits go? Exactly.

I don't care how many "parts" are made in the U.S., or how many Americans work on the assembly line...a Toyota is still a foreign truck and buying one still ultimately hurts our economy. Period. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out."

You bring up a really good point. Where do the profits go? Let's say I buy a Nissan car or truck built in the US. Buying that product supports US jobs, but the company is obviously Japanese. Well, actually, it is French because Renault owns at least a controlling share of Nissan. So, does that mean that every red meat eating Redneck should boycott Nissan and fly the stars and stripes from a GM car/truck? Would that "be better for the economy"? What if by purchasing a Nissan you actually put Americans to work, but if you purchases (that particular) Gm model, you gave Canadians or Mexicans work instead?

You mention, "where the profits go". Two of the largest 5 GM stockholders are foreign. That means that GM's profits (not that this is much of a problem these days) belong in part to foreigners. And those same people get annual dividends.

I am not saying foreign ownership is bad or good. I try to buy products that employ US workers in their manufacture because I rely on Americans buying my products. I want to reinvest in the US economy because it helps my friends and neighbors and ultimately, it helps me.

But I am saying is that the old "buy American" adage is not as simple as it used to be. The companies we are talking about are global, not national. And like it or not, these days companies like Toyota and BMW are investing more in US factories and workers than companies we traditionally think of as our own.

That means that as long as my Ford trucks are still built at the KC light truck plant and (as another post pointed out) major components are US sourced, I will continue buying them. My only request is that Ford does not make it painful to do so when I compare built quality. Because despite how well we all WISH our SD trucks were built, if you take a look at obvious things like the bed wall/floor seam or the form mould line left smack on the gauge surround on the '06 trucks, or the significant problems experienced in the field with the early 6.0 engines- there is room for improvement.

Daimler appears to have really tightened up build quality. The new interiors on the GM SUVs are a big step forward. Over the next year Ford has an opportunity to respond to these advances while bracing for Toyota's entrance into the big truck market. Remember, it doesn't really matter what you or I think about Toyota trucks, the company has a successful track record of entering markets, establishing a foothold and growing. That growth is going to eclipse GM as the number 1 auto maker in the world just as it has already taken out Ford as number 2. We should be concerned about that because even if you sleep under a blue oval, drive a Mustang II and actually believe the panels on your SD line up and are immune to rust forever, Ford still needs to make large investments in future technology and modern manufacturing capacity. Without customers like you and me, Ford will not be able to make those investments.

I don't know about you, but for me, that means that I don't want to open the hood on my new truck and see cheap fixes like a zip tie holding a vacuum line away from the turbocharger simply because no one bothered to engineer a better solution.

We wouldn't be here if we did not like these trucks. I think that in return for our investment and in consideration of how competitive the marketplace has become, ford owes us a higher level of fit and finish on the SD line.

As for “Rocket Scientists” and exactly how a dollar spent on a car built by US workers in a factory built by a off shore multinational owned by shareholders around the globe effects the US economy, I doubt they could tell you. You might try an economist.

I make my decisions based upon who is investing in our economy rather than taking money out of it and investing elsewhere. Recently the US government has given companies a lot of incentive to move their manufacturing overseas. (I had to look for a couple of days before I found a new furnace that I was certain was US built). Right now, the foreign companies you guys love to bash are investing more in America and hiring more Americans than our faltering so-called American companies. That means the "Where the profits go" is back into the US economy rather than to dividends dispersed to shareholders around the globe.

All I am asking is that because I support Ford, they return the favor by investing a little more in the build quality of the trucks I buy from them. I think the company could afford to do a better job painting the under side of the hood, door jams, finishing the bed, hood/fender alignment, vacuum plumbing etc.

-Mike

 

Toyota and Nissan both have US design studios. And yes, they employ Americans.

 

Batgeek- You hit the nail on the head. Good work.

-Mike

 

But the owners are global. GM and Ford are not owned by the nice lady down the street anymore. While the Ford family still controls the board, these companies are global. Are you that concerned about how many vacation homes the grand children of the Ford family buy this year?

 

Right Nick,,, the layoffs are all the fault of someone else, but not due to the fact that in a free market people buy the best products they can for the dollar. Surely this is the fault of the unions, the EPA, healthcare (oh, wait, did you want governemnt healthcare? bet not) and poor unfair trade practices. The last people you would blame are those responsible for building a quality product that people want. It is always someone elses's fault.

 

Very good point. We will have to see if Toyota hires subs or employees.

-Mike

 

What is an "American Vehicle" today?

Is a Chevrolet built in Canada more "American" than a Toyota built in Texas? Both are multinational companies with global shareholders. But one is investing heavily in US manufacturing and the other is outsourcing.

What is Dodge? If I buy a Dodge truck, am I buying American? Dodge is owned by a German company with global shareholders. What if the Dodge I buy is built in Mexico rather than in the US? Writers who suggest that it is as simple as "buy American" fail to understand how complex the global economy has become.

I check to make sure each truck I order comes from the KC plant. But that is just because I want to support middle-class American workers. I am not saying I know the answer- I am saying that the answer is not clear-cut and therefore is it a lot more diffficult than simply saying "buy American".

Meanwhile, I am concerned that Ford will make the same mistakes with the truck market that it made with the car market. Remember when the Taurus was the #1 selling car in the US? Ford failed to reinvest while others (think Camry) took the market seriously.

Ford seems to have made significant investments in the F-150- That truck is consistently rated 1st or 2nd in the market segment. I hope that in the face of direct competition from Daimler and Toyota, they make the same investment in the SD line.

Less Toby Keith around the trucks and more substance in the trucks.

-Mike